Join us for an insightful episode featuring Erik Bailey, a seasoned musical technician and music lover. Erik shares his journey from being inspired by bands like the Pixies and Fugazi, to coming to LA to play guitar in a touring band, to becoming a guitar tech for renowned artists like Vampire Weekend, The Strokes and Beck, and now, to working with artists to discover sound and creativity.
As the conversation unfolds, Erik delves into how his love for empowering artists, creative problem-solving, and discovery of sound have shaped his vast musical career. He also shares valuable insights into musical mastery, emphasizing the importance of dedication and authenticity in music creation.
Erik's mission is to empower and inspire artists while removing obstacles so they are free to create. He discusses how he curates a music store, restores instruments, and collaborates with clients to explore new creative avenues. Learn about his perspective on the creative process and the significance of actively listening to music with intent.
Don't miss out on the wisdom, passion, humility and creative integrity of Erik Bailey.
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Join us for an insightful episode featuring Erik Bailey, a seasoned musical technician and music lover. Erik shares his journey from being inspired by bands like the Pixies and Fugazi, to coming to LA to play guitar in a touring band, to becoming a guitar tech for renowned artists like Vampire Weekend, The Strokes and Beck, and now, to working with artists to discover sound and creativity.
As the conversation unfolds, Erik delves into how his love for empowering artists, creative problem-solving, and discovery of sound have shaped his vast musical career. He also shares valuable insights into musical mastery, emphasizing the importance of dedication and authenticity in music creation.
Erik's mission is to empower and inspire artists while removing obstacles so they are free to create. He discusses how he curates a music store, restores instruments, and collaborates with clients to explore new creative avenues. Learn about his perspective on the creative process and the significance of actively listening to music with intent.
Don't miss out on the wisdom, passion, humility and creative integrity of Erik Bailey.
Don't forget to sign-up for our newsletter and follow us:
Newsletter
YouTube
Instagram
TikTok
For me, the greatest reward is when I can hear it in the music at that point I'm done. I don't need to tag it, I don't need to credit it. I don't need people to take pictures and see about it. It's like when I hear it, I'm like, I'm done. We did something great. You know, that wasn't there before. And that is the goal for me. That's the only thing I care about.
Intro:Welcome to Everyday Masters, the show where we seek to understand mastery. People who have it, people who try for it, people who struggle with it, and how we all manifest it in our own lives. Welcome to Everyday Masters. Everyday Masters. Everyday Masters. Everyday. Every, every day. Master, every day.
Maury:Wow. A theme song. I still am, so amazed that you had a theme song for us in like a couple weeks. We, like, we had a theme song. What's up Craig?
Craig:Hello, Maury Charles Sterling. Where's the Charles? Is Charles first.
Maury:It's first
Craig:Charles
Maury:Charles Maury Wallace Sterling.
Craig:Charles Maury Wallace Sterling. We'll get into that in some other
Maury:That's a whole other, that's a whole other
Craig:Totally, it's a whole podcast that you have four names. We don't have time for that. How are you?
Maury:What I've been working on is some parenting stuff, Sort of like the phrase, the way you do one thing is the way you do everything. So thinking I'm working on, stuff as a parent, of course is gonna affect my relationship to everything because I'm changing. And so I was really excited in terms of what's been going on with me to talk to these Weeks's guest.'cause it's really been a, week about learning how to listen differently. When my son's having a hard time and he's expressing it in ways that you want to correct and say, don't do that and you shouldn't. More listening to, well, where's it coming from? And if I can address the, where's it coming from? He, his behavior changes almost immediately. I've been reading this book named Good Inside by, I believe her name is Becky Kennedy. Forgive me, Becky, if I'm screwing it up. I'm always blown away by something that you read it, you lean into it, and you get an immediate result. And that, of course is shifting how I listen to my wife, how I listen to friends, how I listen to, can I listen past the thing that's the loudest, the screaming and the yelling, which you think is the thing. You're, he, it's what you're hearing. Can you listen past that to something underneath. It's been revelatory. It confirms everything. I think I'm practicing and preaching anyways but there were some places where I really realized like, oh yeah, I'm not doing that. So this week's guest, I was so excited to talk to,'cause I think there's a theme here about listening that, that I will see if the rest of you hear. What about you?
Craig:I like that. And I wasn't gonna share about that, but now I am. Around listening. I do a lot of the editing for the podcast and I'm listening to it, and then it's, hard to not critique myself. And one of the things listeners, believe me I, know that I do this and I'm working on it, is I get excited and I interrupt and I talk a fucking lot and. I just want to get in there with my point, and I wanna do this and I wanna do that. And I was feeling self-conscious and I called Maury. I'm like, man, I'm so sorry. I feel like I hog the mic and, you were super kind. And you're like, don't worry. But I mean, This is an interesting forum when you think about listening and talking because you have a guest and we have us, and you're trying to make a third thing that doesn't exist, which is all of us together in a little potion. I get self-conscious. Why do I talk so much? Why don't I let'em finish their fucking sentence? You know? and I appreciate you saying, ah, we're getting better. We're getting better. And then the really interesting one is, so often when I'm listening to these things, I from an editor's standpoint I hear things I didn't hear and I was in the interview,
Maury:Yeah.
Craig:which also is a really fascinating thing about listening because you and I are doing this and then I go back and do it and I never heard something you said or I never heard something they said, and it's because I formulated the next thing I wanna say, or the next thing I think I should say. And maybe I'm a uni tasker, I can't listen to you, and start, formulating what I am about to say.
Maury:Yeah. What'd you say?
Craig:See, like it just happened right there. I was saying something. But
Maury:If I'm too caught up in me, I can't hear you. And that, and I think some of that is just life, right? That's why every self-help book thing, a lot of them just get present and be here now, get past, so you can, but it's interesting in this where it's a very friendly environment to see like, oh, wow I missed, I just didn't that thing. Well, we should probably get to the guest'cause
Craig:Do that.
Maury:This is a guy who I met and we talked for maybe. Maybe 15 minutes. His wife was a wardrobe designer on a show I recently worked on, and she introduced me, we started chitchatting and I had this just immediate feeling of this would be a, great guy to have on the show. So, what's fun about this one is Craig, you don't know Erik, so you're gonna be getting to know him for the first time. But in that short time we talked, I was really curious about what he was up to, what he was doing and, thought it would be great to talk to him on the show.
Craig:And I need to jump in and just say I am admittedly saying I have a crazy vomit of the mouth fanboy over excitement in talking to this guest for those friends that knew me, I always wanted to be a rock star. I always wanted to be around rock stars, and it hasn't happened to me. And so when I get close to this kind of energy, I get really lit up and Maury was nice enough to let me, run this time but please realize I am overly excited and enthusiastic in this interview.
Maury:So without further ado, join us in talking to Erik Bailey.
Craig:Yeah. Hey, you did it.
Erik:Well, yeah.
Maury:Hey, Erik,
Erik:I definitely considered plugging in a lot of fancy equipment to do this, but I was like, oh, I should just, chill out.
Maury:Erik, meet Craig. Craig meet Erik.
Erik:Hey Craig.
Craig:How are you doing? Erik, thanks so much for being here. I'm so fired up. I took a look at the bio and I may have some wannabe musician fanboy stuff coming at you. So heads up.
Erik:I'm ready for it. You know, love the enthusiasm.
Craig:Before we jump into your story, just to let you know a little bit about me. In about fourth grade I was on a block where there were a lot of musicians, a lot of kids playing music, and I went over to my friend Brad's house and Brad had these older brothers and there was a jam room. And I remember walking into this garage and I was like, oh my God, this is the coolest thing ever. Rock and roll jam room. And I saw my buddy play drums, and I looked at him and I said, man, I think I can do that. From there, I have been in pursuit, of music. Some of my happiest times of my childhood were being in rock bands, playing Judas Priest and ACDC in the garage and the battle of the bands in the Valley. And then I grew up in, a really kind of fun and hilarious era of the mid to late eighties in Los Angeles. And it was a fun time'cause it was Motley Crue and it was Docking and it was Rat and there was like this big, rock and roll scene going on. And I had a bunch of friends that kind of went for it. And the truth is, I was always kind of two chicken and I went off to college. But I still have my drum set. I still have all my rock and roll memorabilia and being a musician. And a rocker is such a huge part of who I am. And, I'm always trying to participate in music in some way because when I don't, I'm not happy. And so while I didn't have the courage to, to be a musician full-time, or pursue it I certainly have the heart of a musician and the love of a musician. So I wanted to say I am thrilled that you are here and I have so much that I want to ask you about.
Erik:Oh, thanks. That's so nice. And I, it kind of reminds me a little bit of, older brothers and older sisters and babysitters and things. That was the internet, that was the access information.
Craig:Right? That's right.
Erik:My sister, I have an older sister. She was the one that like showed me like what quote unquote good music was. And like, I had like other friends that had older brothers that were like, oh, here's a punk mix tape. And I was like, what's punk? Yeah, It's, but now you can just be like, think of anything and it just appears in your hands, you know? But like that's how you got access to that stuff.
Craig:I really, love that unique time of the, band on the block kind of thing. Like, when I think back about it, it's such a special time in my life, writing rock songs and, dreaming of being a rock star. Like, I really had all those dreams, and loved it so much. And staring at Circus Magazine and the whole thing.
Erik:Yeah, it's kind of funny, like I had almost the opposite reaction when I,'cause I, I'm a more of like came of age in like the nineties and stuff. So in the eighties, like the hair metal bands and stuff like that, like the inves and like the just shredding seemed absolutely impossible to me. Yeah. And then like when I saw Nirvana, I go, oh, I can do that.
Craig:Yeah. Right. It was kind of more accessible. Right. Yeah, it was more accessible.
Erik:Yeah. Yeah.
Maury:So for everybody listening clearly what, drew me to Erik. He's, the world of music, but what I took from our conversation, Erik, and and and then just to kind of give an overview of what I sounded like, what you were up to, and correct me if I'm wrong and this is jumping forward a little bit of helping musicians find new sound. Like helping people who. Already know what they're doing in the field of music, but maybe helping them explore an instrument in a way they'd never experienced before even knew how to do. Is that a, fair description?
Erik:That is exactly accurate, and I remember when I met you, so like, part of wanting to come on this podcast was just meeting you and you seem very enthusiastic about it, but I'm, a pretty like, secretive person, and like the, question I always dread meeting new people that aren't in my field is like the question of what is it that you do? And I remember the only time I've ever said it in a very concise way is when I said it to you.
Craig:Oh, nice.
Erik:Because like it's actually multi-tiered, like all within a universe. But that is the goal is to set a creative spark in someone that. Has the thing, that's right. And that, that's a different approach to every single person I work with,
Maury:Right. Well, I think that's totally interesting. We'll get to that sort of more towards the end. Let's, rewind and we'll ask you our first question we ask everybody, which is, how did you feel when I asked you to be on a podcast that was called Everyday Masters?
Erik:Well, my first instinct was hell no. And it made me very nervous, but then also very curious. Alright. Just because I've, been asked a few times, even people like in my field that like wanna do like an interview and stuff and I'm always nervous of saying the wrong thing or something like that. And I like that your approach to interviewing someone that has a job that you might not necessarily know that exists or like the reasoning behind why they put in all the hard hours and everything. And that part was very interesting to me. And I want to do more things that make me feel uncomfortable.
All:Hahaha.
Craig:Right on. That's good. That's how you grow. That's cool. You've, done some really, exciting things, that really turned me on as a music lover and I'm sure a lot of our listeners. So how did this all start? How did you get to where you are?
Erik:Okay. Well I grew up in a really rural town in western New York State called Bath. And it was really like, kind of like the. Older sister and like older friends that started playing music that kind of like really spoke to me. I remember the first time I heard the Pixies or like Fugazi and stuff, and I was just like, where's more of this? And there wasn't a way to get it, you know? So it was like copies of copies of copies. And then it didn't really ever occur to me that I could play music in a band with people until I was like 13 or 14 and I just got grounded from everything. I couldn't watch tv, I couldn't see friends. And my mom had an old classical guitar, in her closet. I don't know, I just felt like pretty drawn to it. I had, people like on my wall from like Spin Magazine and stuff like that. And I was like, oh, guitar's so cool. people think I'm so interesting if I play guitar and I, kind of just like accidentally put in the hours. And just tried to figure it out on my own. There wasn't any guitar teachers or anything. So I kind of didn't know he had to tune guitars and things like that. My father played guitar, but when I was interested in that, they kind of dismissed it in a thing. They're like, oh, this is an expensive hobby. You, we don't think you'll stick with it. And I'm also left-handed, which they thought was like an obstacle to find like a left-handed instrument. So I just kind of picked up the right-handed one because that's what I had access to. And I think if I would've learned left-handed, it's so impossible to find left-handed instruments and especially vintage ones, which I later become to really appreciate and stuff like that. It just becomes like much more difficult path because it's like, I don't know, one in 1000 people play left-handed or something.
Maury:I didn't know that.
Craig:This guy named, Jimi Hendrix. Did it pretty good. too though. He was all right.
Erik:Yeah, so, it's just like, if there's a will, there's a way, it never occurred to me to play upside down, It was kind of more simple like.
Craig:Wait. So even though you were lefty, you learned to play righty?
Erik:Right.
Craig:Got it. That's, tough. That's tough.
Erik:Then I showed my parents that, I could play a couple songs and, after that they were like super encouraging about it. And then at that time when you're that young, you're just like, let's play music together. and you have no idea how these pieces fit together at all. I remember inviting my friend over to play bass and I was like, okay, you play and I'll play. I didn't have any idea that there's a thing called rhythm or keys or anything. Right. It was kind of a disaster. So I've always learned from Just general enthusiasm and like going for it and just learning by mistake, and I didn't really take music so seriously for a long time. And when I was older and I graduated I, tried college. I tried to be a computer science major and I got to my first final and I was in a cubicle and like my program wouldn't work and I was like very frustrated. And then I just had like this moment of clarity of, oh, this is my job. I'm gonna be frustrated in the cubicle. And I just like got up and left. And then, I was just floating around for a while and my friend was like, oh, I'm in California. You wanna come to play guitar in this band? And I was like, sure. And I just picked up and left upstate New York. I'd never really been anywhere. And that was just like, I don't know, the universe calling or something.
Craig:When you're looking back at that moment now How good a musician were you when you're like, eh, I think I'll go to LA and be a musician. Were you like, not good? Were you great? Were you okay?
Erik:Definitely not great. In hindsight, it was definitely not even above average, but I always had some extra edge that maybe some other folks didn't have when it came to like actually playing or something, but, or like the sound I was making. But it was really just a nepotism hire. We like knew each other. I was just really excited and they, were gonna go on tour and I was like, oh my God, that just sounds so glamorous and amazing. And I was like, I get to see all these places. And, then after doing that for a while, I kind of realized the reality of it. It's impossible to make money. Things break all the time. I mean, this is like a post punk band, so it wasn't profitable, but just sleeping in people's couches and I'm like, allergic to cats and they have five cats.
Craig:Right.
Erik:You know, kind of, kind of stuff like that. But in, in doing that and playing every night, I realized that there was a huge difference between how I felt about music and what performing was. I had no desire to perform like at all.
Craig:I can relate by the way, I was in a band after college and I realized just the anxiety around the whole thing and wanting to be great. What, was your aha moment where you're like, I love music. I don't love performing.'cause there's so many people that are like, my life is when I'm on stage, and I remember thinking yeah, I'm freaked out on getting ready to go on stage and, so what, when was that moment and what was that like?
Erik:The stage is the best place you can be if people adore you and want you to be on that stage. And it's a pretty humbling experience, right? When you're trying to perform or play music for people that do not wanna hear it.
Craig:Yeah.
Erik:And then then, to give it your all in the circumstances, which, I now know from like, working with so many artists, they have this thing, it's like when they step on the stage, they can switch into it. They see that audience, they're like, I'm gonna win you over and I'm gonna make you love me.
Craig:Right.
Erik:I was like, oh, you guys don't like it. I'll just stop.
Craig:Yeah, right.
Erik:I just didn't have the desire to win anybody over in that sense. And, when like a bad show was bad, it, I like really took it to heart. And it wasn't because we were particularly like playing bad or anything, it just kind of felt pointless and empty and, you know, kind of, it hurt, and then I was just like, I just don't have that thing. That makes me wanna be some place where people don't want me to be there.
Craig:I told you I was gonna geek out on this one. Maury, I'm sorry, but I, have to do this. I was in this band called The Nervous Little Dogs, Erik. Okay? So just let that sit in for the a minute. And we were playing like these funky jazz covers with a DJ and a trumpet. And it was pretty fun. It was pretty cool. Like if you were a musician, everybody else was just my friend showing up. But we started playing around LA, and then we play here and play there, and the crowd started getting okay, pretty good, a couple hundred people. and. I wasn't really thinking it could be anything, but I was having fun that it was like escalating to your point earlier. So anyhow, I book one of those shows at the Viper Room. Okay, Yeah. On a Saturday night. And, between you and me I'm like, holy shit, we got to the Viper Room on a Saturday night. Like that kind of felt okay. Mind you, I have to cover the door if we don't make it, you know, that whole thing.
Erik:Okay yeah, The whole pay to play kind of situation.
Craig:Pay to, right, right. But, let's not get into the details'cause I'm playing the Viper room. Right. So anyhow,
Erik:Sure.
Craig:I'm playing the Viper Room same anxiety and I'm starting to get nervous. I get up there and the last show we did had a hundred and something people, I just have to cover, I don't know, 60 or something at the door. They announced the band. I'm standing up there. I was the singer in the guitar player. The curtain's open and all I see is one friend from high school, Spencer, and my fucking parents in the back, happy and proud as can be in the back and the rest is open floor. Okay. Spencer. I played plenty of things like that. Yeah. And honestly, in that moment, Erik, I was like, fuck this. I was like, I want to die. And I just had to like muscle my way through that. And like things changed from that night, you know? I was like, how bad do I wanna feel like this? You know what I'm saying?
Erik:Oh yeah. I mean it's, extraordinarily humbling. It's probably like the equivalent of, a comic like absolutely bombing on stage, and it, and there's these external factors that, just can't allow you to. Reach the performance inside. You know? I kind of identified that pretty quickly, but A couple years later I was working for I think it was a band called Rilo Kiley, or it could have been her later project, which is just her name, Jenny Lewis. But I knew that she was like super sick and, she had a fever, she, felt like hell and I remember she went out on stage and just like gave it her all. And I was like, I do not have that. I'm gonna stop playing live music right now.
Craig:Right. Exactly.
Erik:So cut to the end of that band we had like this quote unquote tour manager who was really just a friend and I'm still friends with him today. And in the van ride home from like probably El Paso or something is like a really long drive. I tell everybody in the van that I quit and like everything. So we get to the next stop and my friend that was the tour manager is like, I think you should be a guitar tech. I think you'd be really good at that. You'd really interested in like sound and instruments and things like that. And I was like, I have no idea what you're talking about. He explained the job to me. He is like, okay, I'm gonna go in tour manager, this band in New York, like next week, they're gonna pay you like 500 bucks. And I was like, holy shit. 500 bucks.
Craig:Career, change complete.
Erik:And I was like, what do I have to do? And he's like, oh, you just like kind of tune the guitar and hand it to him. That can't be a job. That cannot be a job. And I get there and I quickly find out that he tremendously underestimated the role. And I was greatly like underprepared and I, didn't even have an idea of what like a professional band would expect. And I remember the first show is at this like Coney Island stadium, and it was a festival. I'd never even been to a festival before. And they have like, really tight times between the bands. And then there's like all these like stage hands and like they're getting all this equipment outta the truck. And they're like, okay, where do you want to set up this drum kit? And I'm like, I don't know. And they're like, well, do you wanna set this up? And I was like, I've never set up a drum kit in my life. You know, like.
Craig:You're like, I'm the guitar guy.
Maury:I don't do drums.
Erik:Yeah. I wasn't even used to things being on a tight schedule, you know? I was completely out of my mind, out of the water or whatever. But that band that, you know, they could tell I was like super green. They were as lovely as it could be to somebody that was no experience being there. So after that I felt like pretty, like embarrassed and like fish outta water or whatever, and I just like didn't. I think I was, could, was capable of that role, but somehow I got on an email list and these job offers kept coming in. And, you know, this time I had a lot of time to prepare and research and, just tighten up where I just didn't know and I said yes to a job and, then it just, I did it well and it just kind of started from there. And it's kind of like a Forest Gump kind of story of indie rock after that. Just, one thing fell into the other and that band got massive and like it just kept going and going.
Craig:In your bio it talks about bands we've heard of, you know, Vampire Weakend and The Strokes and Queens of the Stone Age and Beck. What's that experience like? Is it exhilarating? Is it nerve wracking? What makes for a great guitar tech when the stakes get that high?
Erik:That it's probably difficult to answer because it's different for every artist, but like I, think for me it was just like, my goal is to make the artist feel the most comfortable and never have any sort of calamity is happening and never see like, when things are going wrong, like, don't let'em see you sweat, because then the panic, right? But I definitely, this, that part of it starts my next like 10 years of work. Which was a, learning curve and I had a lot of people that were very kind to me when I didn't know what to do. I was just trying my best to get better and be better than anybody that I was around because I didn't really have anybody to learn from. I didn't know what was really expected of me. So I just kind of over prepared like every single time we did anything. At that point I didn't even know how to fix guitars or do anything like that. So like, after tours I would, like, read manuals and try and fix my own things, fix my friends' things. And, you know, after you put in your 10,000 hours you, know what you're doing, So like the Vampire Weekend one was kind of funny. How I got that job. I was already at this music festival called Coachella.
Craig:Yeah.
Erik:Working with a different band. And my friend comes up to me and he goes, Hey, do you wanna make 50 bucks? And I was like, hell yeah, I wanna make 50 bucks. And he's like, can you meet me at the stage at like 4:00 PM can you help me with this band called Vampire Weekend? And I was just like, man, that's an awful band name, but yeah, sure.
Craig:That's great.
Erik:And then so I get over there and then their first song, like, I think he broke a string and the reverb went out I just immediately helped them out with that stuff. And I might as well have been like, you know the second coming one for them.'cause they were like really young then they, they never had anybody help them. Wow. And they were just, holy shit. They put a string on it. They made my shit work when I was like doing it. Because I had more experience than them, because this was like right off their first record when it starting to up some steam. Then you know, after that they were just like, we want this kid around, and, I had more experience than them. So they were very kind to me. And it was really just like them, a tour manager and me. And then we got to experience the entire world together for the first time.
Craig:Wow.
Erik:So like, I went to like Japan with them in Australia and like all these places and like, at the time, and they were like being courted by all these like promoters and things like that. So they just take us to like, meet kangaroos and koalas and,
Craig:Right. Yeah.
Erik:Go to these crazy places and stuff. So like, we really grew into that, field, like together. Then, on their second record they were like, hey, this is a lot of work for one person. Do you wanna hire somebody? And I was like, no, I think I can do it myself. You know? Right. And then they're like, well, we think you should help get some help. So I just like hired a friend and then. And then their second record like absolutely exploded. And that happened like when we started. That year I was away for about 300 days out of the, single, calendar year.
Craig & Maury:Wow.
Erik:And I was like wrecked, emotionally, physically, when I came home, like I kind of expected nobody to change. And like, things were different. People had different relationships, they'd lived different places. People stopped calling me because I just figured I wasn't around. And then I started being like, oh, I can't do this forever because I wanna have like these, like close relationships with people. And then that's like when I, in my off time really started learning how to repair things and like building up a separate business. Like while I was, my main job was seeing a guitar tech. After that somebody calls me and they're like, hey we got a good recommendation from Vampire Weekend. Can you come and work for The Strokes? And I was like, yeah, sure. And they're like, okay you know, rehearsals this day. And I was like, cool. Like, when's my plane ticket? Or just, you know, send me a plane ticket. And they're like, wait, you don't live in New York? And I was like, no, I don't live in park. And they're like, oh we, need somebody locally in case they don't like you. And so then we don't, you know, and I was like, oh, okay. But then I was like, well, I have all these like flyer miles, why don't I just go out and I'll stay with my friend? And it was kind of like the same thing. It's like when, as soon as I met them, we became close friends and started helping them, build their pedal boards and figure out their stuff. And they had all these questions at that point in their career. Even though they had a very long career, they really didn't have a lot of professional, ways to do things. It was really just a bar band playing a stadium, like really their pedal boards, which is like a series of like effects that are plugged in. Were on like car mats. With like just kind of store-bought wires, like hanging out everywhere.
Craig:Really. And that's crazy.
Erik:Yeah.
Craig:That's kind of the image in the sound of The Strokes though in some way. It kind of sounds like that early on.
Erik:Yeah, it sounds like that. But like, you know, that's never cute when your stuff doesn't work.
Craig:Right, right. When everything's shorting out you can't find your car mat. Yeah. That's tough.
Erik:Yeah, exactly.
Craig:Was there a big tour with The Strokes as well?
Erik:No, because like at that point they were doing a lot of, I think they had just finished a record and they were doing a lot of promo and then they weren't really touring a lot'cause they were. You know just kind of figuring out what they wanted to do as a band. But for me, the schedule worked great because it wasn't like, 300 days outta the year. It was like half the year kind of split up over the entire year. So then I could still be home a lot and then just kind of meet up with them when they weren't doing stuff. And then when they did their next record, I would go to New York and help them get sounds and I introduced them to the vast world of like tons of effects, you know? Okay. Got it. Right. For better or worse, because they were very simple when I kind of started with them, but they're very curious and like I already had like a bit of a understanding of that kind of stuff.
Craig:Hang on. Guitar nerd. Question coming. as well. So around this time with The Strokes what, year are we talking here?
Erik:2009.
Craig:Okay. 2009. You're a tech, you've traveled around the world. You're really good. You're especially really good with young bands that feel like, wow, finally we got some professionalism here. But you're a bit of a whiz when it comes to sound. And I know that stuff is really, intimidating. Like I am not a gear nut. I think for some of us it's overwhelming the amount of choices and sounds and knobs and dials and all that kind of stuff. But at this point around 2009, you're like, this is kind of my thing. Like helping people find sounds. That right?
Erik:Yeah. I mean that was like my main interest that came really easy to me. And I kind of realized during that time is like I loved that creative part of it. Because like, say a band like Vampire Weekend or The Strokes or, whoever, when they're on their second and third record, like when they go out live, they wanna introduce new, songs that have new sounds and then have it fit in with all their, past repertoire and that kind of creative problem. Oh, We use this amp and this amp in a tile bathroom to create the sound.
Craig:Yeah. Right.
Erik:And I'm like, okay I, can do that with two pedals so I'd recreate some of those sounds and we'd figure out the systems so that they would work every night. I loved that part. I didn't love being on a stage at two in the morning getting mauled by mosquitoes. At, that point, I just didn't feel right, being in a place that I didn't wanna be in because I felt it was like a disservice to the artists I was working for and the people that I like, really respected and loved. Once that kind of main problem solving was done I was like, well, someone else can come out here and just make it work every night. I don't want to be the guy that's always there. That's like when I first had those thoughts and it took me, let's say another six years to actually make a transition out of it.
Craig:Got it. So you loved the creative problem solving, the, making, the sounds, but you got clear after the Vampire Weekend stuff that, the lifestyle of a touring rock band and the production grind was not for you. You wanted a way to kind of live a more normal life. And do what you love.
Erik:Yeah So then after that you know, someone's like, oh, I think like Beck would like really like you, and stuff like that. And I was like, I, respect Beck. He's like, the first piece of music I'd ever bought for myself was like,
Maury:Wow!
Craig:Sure.
Erik:cassette, single, Loser, you know? And I was like,
Craig:Yeah, totally!
Erik:oh yeah. Like, this seems very interesting, really challenging to me. I really respect what he's doing.
Craig:I gotta ask here, Erik. now it's like Vampire Weekend and the Strokes, and then Beck, I mean, by the time Beck comes knocking, are you like, man, this is really fucking exciting, you know? I'm a guy that just rolled out to LA to play guitar and like, man, look where this has gone. Did you have those moments?
Erik:I definitely had those moments, but most of the time I was so busy that like, I never really got too stuck in those things. Like maybe like when I was describing what I was doing to my mom, like I had those like kind of proud moments, but right in the moment, it just felt like totally natural, these kind of pairings, you know?
Craig:Good.
Erik:I do remember like specific music moments when I heard The Strokes in my in ears, play Is This It for the first time, which is like a song I heard right when I graduated high school and like, holy shit. Yeah. The same thing when I heard Beck play something from Sea Change for the first time, like right in front of me. I was like, holy shit.
Craig:Right, right.
Erik:But you know, you quickly snap out of it because you're, there to help these people do whatever get, within them out.
Craig:Were you a guitar tech for Beck?
Erik:Yeah. That was like my greatest learning experience because he would always take me in the studio too, and he didn't always have a set band. He would always have kind of more like a Beach Boys approach where we'd hire like, you know, the same group of people, but like the Beck"Wrecking Crew" and that could be all sorts of different people. And, if you were there, you were the best in your field. And it was just so great to learn from these people. They're always like so kind to me and Beck could like immediately, more than I knew myself, how I could help him get a sound that he just described in words. I'm a huge fan of music and so is Beck. We have like huge live music, so we could speak in these like reference of like specific records and stuff like that. And it was like, oh, I know what that is. It's like very dry, kind of woofy, like these kind of words that people throw out there that are very confusing.
Craig:Yeah.
Erik:You know?
Craig:Right. And you knew what he was talking about.
Erik:Yeah. And he had all the equipment that I had dreamed about.
Craig:Right.
Erik:So like, that stuff was like me playing these things for the first time, just going oh my God, I've always seen this in the magazine. That kind of thing. And then like, just sitting in the studio and like, kind of learning like what they were doing, with the drums and like how they were processing like the piano and like, things like that. So I was just like, wow, this is really interesting because I was starting to hear all the sounds I could hear in the favorite recordings. I, heard, it's like how they got like, A sound that was close to like a acoustic guitar or like a drum sound that sounded like a German prog rock band. I was like, oh my God, these people know how to do this stuff.
Craig:Yeah.
Erik:But with him and like studio stuff, like on bigger sessions, lots of people because that is, you need to work through problems and move forward. You can't like wait for somebody to come help you. And he, I was just there to kind of facilitate something where maybe he'd be in the control room and he is like, oh, I want this to sound like The Cramps or whatever. And then I would just go in with a guitar player and it's, okay, play with a pick like this and I'm gonna adjust your reverb so it sounds like a trash can. You know?
Craig:Right.
Erik:And then we would just go a lot faster that way. And then the stuff we'd made in the studio, then we'd have to figure out how to play it live with like the humongous catalog that he already had. Then he just had like a complete trust in me and I got to build his effects rig and eventually I operated the effects rig during the show. So I was
Craig:Wow.
Erik:Completely entertained during the music. And then as I left the touring world, I started to put all my friends and people that had trained in those places. I'm still very connected to a lot of these bands and, their touring families that they go out with. And I probably know that group of people more than my own family, because we spend so much time with each other.
Craig:By the way, I was a huge Jellyfish fan. Does that mean anything to you?
Erik:Oh yeah, of course. Roger Manning and Falkner are good friends of mine.
Craig:Yeah, exactly. I loved-loved Jellyfish. Please, tell them that I love Jellyfish and I would like another Jellyfish album.
Erik:They would love to hear that.
Maury:I'll, interrupt with this sort of outta left field question because I think we're there and we'd like to ask this one because a lot of what you've been talking about is getting, like, describing Beck and his crew, musicians, he like to play with. You said each one of them is at the top of their game. So a question we always like to ask is, do you think it's possible for anyone to be a master?
Erik:Yeah, definitely. I don't I, think, like I've definitely seen people that have no restriction when it comes to an instrument and what they're hearing. Like, other than the restriction of the, instrument itself. There's definitely those people that exist in LA and that's why I don't play music.
Craig:What do you mean they don't have a restriction?
Erik:If they have an idea or if they hear something they don't have to think about it. It's just like a total liquid no resistance between their mind and their instrument. Got it. Got it. Okay. Roger Manning is one of those keyboard jellyfish. You can literally shout songs to him and then go, okay, play Randy Newman. But play it like, as if Mozart was playing it, or, with your right, hand, play it like Duke Ellington, but okay, now switch into the Doobie Brothers. Like he can do that flawless.
Maury:Do you think that's a skill that an anyone can have, or do you think that is sort of certain people are born with that ability?
Erik:I, would say it is possible that you can do that without having natural talent. It's just you're up against such a bigger struggle than someone that's more wired to do that easier. Yeah. But there's certain things like you, you can't be like a classic, you can't sing like Adele. If you don't have the genetics to sing like Adele. Right. You know, but Right. With a guitar or something, you can sound like yourself or someone else. There's all sorts of people on TikTok that can mimic things quite accurately. But there's a few players that I've got to see just right in front of my face. I'm like this, there's no resistance between their mind and their hands. They just do it like. These people exist. And, and they're also like brave enough to try like new things sometimes there, there's so much complexity in the simple things that somebody will play that's like kind of what my ears go for. I don't really care about virtuosity because like virtuosity is something you can routinely play and woodshed, but and how somebody plays like a chord or a note or like a, drummer just playing a do like, and that makes you feel something. Like, that's what I listen for and that's what I kind of like really gravitate towards.
Craig:How, do you feel about this statement? And I realize you and I are from slightly different eras, I grew up loving, ACDC and I've thought about it a lot over my life. For the most part, those guys are playing stuff that we all learn to play, right? Yeah. And then I transition when I talk about it to like food, you know, it's like, We all know there's very classy food. There's high-end food and there's also like a great cheeseburger, right? And we all, a lot of us will go for a great cheeseburger a lot. And I think about ACDC and I think about some of these bands, or maybe The Strokes is a good example too. And you think the magic of playing something that we can all kind of play, but it being kind of transcendent to me, why when they play it is it different than if anybody ever plays it? You know what I mean? And there's some musical magic in the fact that we actually can all play it, but nobody can play it like them. That blows my mind with music.
Erik:I think that's the thing that's like always interesting to me and like why I'm constantly searching for new music and new inspiration is because those things exist. You can play the ACDC song with a reasonable amount of, flawlessness, let's say, but it will never sound like how those dudes do it. I think that people that are music admirers don't really understand like how much of that sound is within those people's, like hands and bodies.
Craig:Yes.
Erik:And that's like kind of what I do in my shop now is sometimes people like, play me a record and they're like, okay, like this is the sound I'm going for. And then I'll go, this is what they use. And then maybe we'll start there, but that artist or producer's input is different from the person that they're hearing. And sometimes you can switch that piece of gear to be more adequate to that person's musical output to get the same result or get the result they're actually looking for. It's like, well, if I buy a Marshall, I'll sound like Jimi Hendrix. no way. You know? It's like, no way.
Craig:No way.
Erik:But you can get that sound, what that means to you if you apply it in a musical way with like what you're outputting as like that person playing that music. You can get something that within that effectiveness, but is not the same thing, you know?
Maury:Right. I have a horrible confession to make, which is I, my computer's running out of charge, so I'm gonna run, grab my charger. We could take a two minute break.
Craig:No, fuck it. I'm gonna keep going'cause I'm excited. Fuck.
Maury:Well, I'm super excited too.
Craig:To me it's so exciting that you get to have a professional life that's involved with music. I just always think that's incredible, to be honest. I think it's, I think it's freaking incredible, that you put this together.
Erik:That was like the appealing thing for me to, do a podcast like this with, people that weren't in the professional world is because I wanted to share that with people that I didn't know I could do this as a job. You know? I had no idea that like, I could create something like this. But I think it's good for people to hear that one, that there's so many people behind these like amazing artists even excluding myself that kind of make this, it, it takes a village kind of a thing. And it's always great to acknowledge all the hard work that goes into a live show or a record or something like that, but also just just follow your passion and like your curiosity and you look back and you're like, oh my God, I have a career. Even like having this conversation with you guys, I was like, wow, my career's actually really long. Yeah, right. I don't think about that. I think about what I'm doing right now. Yeah. Maybe what I have to do tomorrow. I don't really reflect on this kind of stuff and, I hope it makes sense, like in a logical way, but I think it's, it, I feel extremely lucky every day to work with the people that I work with. And, I think that's the thing that kind of keeps inspiring me to, to keep that passion going.
Craig:Maury's back in case you're wondering. There, there was something I always found to be very cruel about the music industry growing up in LA and the kids I grew up with, and some people were like, got to be one, one hit wondery kind of thing. But if, you could put your finger on, is there any possible way you could describe the rhyme or reason behind why, a musical act would make it in quotes and not make it?
Erik:I actually have a, like, a fairly decent answer for this and it, the people that have careers in music largely are doing what they're compelled to do and make the songs that they're compelled to make and don't really compromise the people that have success early and then try to replicate that success realize that's almost impossible. And then they start second guessing themselves. They don't get the bad songs out. So like, most people like have to write 50 bad songs to get to one good one. It's almost like, you know, in order to run a marathon, you gotta, run every day. Beck is a great example of that. That guy works more than people even imagine like how many hard drives and tapes this dude has in music. And it's all like, to me, like, pretty incredible. But to him it wasn't ready, it wasn't the right idea. It wasn't like how he was feeling But I, would only guess that every release song, the kids like, there's probably. 20 or more that aren't. And he works at it like every day.
Craig:But Erik, how hard is that? Yeah. When you're, you've been close to people that, you know, things break and things happen for him, like how hard is that to find your center and not be blown around by the attention or the money or the tour or the whatever? I mean, that must be really hard to do.
Erik:This would go in the other creative field, like an actor would be an equivalent or a painter or a sculptor. The people that kind of survived that have these amazing stories were like, they were discovered after 50 years of work or something, I'm sure they liked the acknowledgement, but they were gonna do it anyway. Yeah. Whether people paid attention to it or not. And it's like anything you really have to, dive in and not really worry about the consequences. Although, there's a lot of good artists that kind of, their life becomes too overwhelming and they get out of it because, maybe that's unplanned illness or, maybe impromptu family or, maybe they just don't have the self-confidence to get through those. Low moments, but it's, definitely a lot of luck, but it's, a lot of hard work, at least the people that, from my vantage point these people are looking super hard to get even better at where, what they do.
Maury:Yep.
Craig:Having been a guy who's written a lot of bad songs because I wanted somebody to see me. You know what I mean? Like yeah. You write a song like, fuck, I hope girls will wanna have sex with me'cause of this, you know? And Sure. Your motives fucked. Like you said, you're fucked. Creating you, have to get yourself out of the way. You have to do it for the doing it
Erik:It's like, just because you made something doesn't mean you have to share it with people. Right. You know, and like, I think just like the process of making things is something that people should get used to. Yes. And like you, shouldn't share your first songs with anybody. Yes. Unless you're one of these 1% of people that are magical because like most of the time you won't get the reaction that you're expecting or the opposite will happen where people give you more of a reaction than you are expecting and then it kind of clouds your judgment. Now you're kind of going after like a, like an expected result and like that's hard to nail. Like if not impossible, you know?
Craig:I'm a very harsh critic of myself. I'm so mean to myself in my head. I know I'm better than I give myself credit for.
Erik:Well, you're no different than any artist I've ever worked for.
Craig:Oh man.
Erik:They're all deeply insecure and are confused about what they're making is good or bad. And they usually will have some sort of trust and team around them that they'll share music with. And, you know, they'll get valid feedback instead of, like yes, this is good. And then they, get hurt out there career wise. Yeah. so they, they're all in that same world that you are. You know, they compartmentalize it, very well.
Maury:I think something that's really stood out to me in your story, Erik, is, which I, think I'm equating with this, knowing your artistry, knowing your voice not, trying to stick in the past, moving forward what's your, so what's your mission statement? What's your voice? You've said a couple things throughout this story that have really stood out. I, love the way how you phrased it. You, it was your love of music versus performing. Yeah. And, that's, I that stood out to me. It wasn't just, you knew you had a really strong love of music, that, that felt like a very clear mission statement. Like you've known these moments too, where you went into the cubicle and you went. Oh my God, this is gonna be my life. Like you've been able to really do that too, in your life story. It wasn't necessarily about making songs, but it was about these moments of this is my connection this is what I like doing, and really sticking with that. You've reinvented over time because of that, but it's like you knew your song even if it wasn't a song, if that makes sense.
Erik:Yeah. That makes sense. I think like what I do now is like, I try to do that creative part every day with hopefully everybody that walks through my door in different ways and different price points and different understandings. But it's kind of like an amazing thing where it's, I have these amazing ingredients and then I have these people that I can give these amazing ingredients and they turn out like the most incredible foods you've ever even imagined. Now when I get a piece of gear that it'll remind me of somebody and I'll like call that person. Have you ever used one of these? I think this would gel really well with you. And that maybe it'll be like slightly out of their comfort zone. I'll see if sparks or not. And then, business is a side product of that kind of experiment.
Maury:Being in this position where you're taking people who sounds like have done well in their field. Yet you are introducing them to a, like a whole new form of expression. I just find like,
Erik:Yeah, that's exactly it. Yeah.
Maury:I think that just sounds, because I feel like some, so much of us, you know, so much of our, life struggles can be whatever they are is how do we get out of the stuck place and then we don't even know we're,
Craig:Wait, I gotta jump in for the listeners here. So you guys are talking about something we don't understand. What, are you doing right now in your own words?
Erik:Well now I'm kind of doing that thing I used to do for live in the studio, but I have like my own by appointment music store that's super curated with the only things that I find are kind of inspiring that I think maybe my clients will, and then, I have a workshop where I can restore things that I have to sell or,'cause I used to have a big repair business, but I stopped doing that recently'cause it was too difficult with like having a young kid in school. I still do custom pedalboard effects builds with people. During the pandemic, I started making instruments out of, parts I had around. And that is the kind of come its own thing. And I'm on the phone a lot, more pertaining to that specific client's questions, because a lot of times they'll bounce things off to me like, what does this sound like compared to this? What if we did these two things together and then I kind of had the experience where I know what that outcome is. And then if that sounds interesting enough, maybe we'll do it.
Craig:Is it like I'm an Erik customer. I'm a friend of yours. I might be going on tour, I might be a guitar player or something. I, maybe have a sound in my head and I'm not sure how to get there. And I'm like, ah, I know the guy I can call. Or vice versa, you bump into something and you're like I think Craig, may dig this amp. Or I, made this guitar that I think might sound well with what, he's doing. So it's, fluid. It's not just like a, there's a menu of how to work with you, but it tends to be around matching people with sounds and instruments. Is that right?
Erik:Exactly, yeah. It's both of those things. Yeah. Because like for me, I can't do the same thing every day. One day it might be doing, Instagram videos, like programming drum machines or something like that. And other time I might be talking about a future project with clients, or sometimes people come in and be like, I got a session tomorrow. I, just feel totally uninspired, inspire me. And then, I started like making products with my friends. And that has been super exciting to me. Like I released a pedal two years ago that is a mystery of where it comes from, and that's been doing really well. There's gonna be more of that kind of thing. And then I worked with some other people that make stuff in the recording pro audio world, and we collaborate a lot. And so there's like these planting these little seeds that maybe in two years will become a thing. And it didn't exist before. And I have the perfect people to show it to. a common problem in the people that have long careers is that they are also searching for this new thing that they don't have before, but they have like this whole incredible music career. So as most artists, get longer in their career, it's tougher for them to create,
Craig:I bet.
Erik:And, you know, take, somebody like Sade who's one of my favorite, she hasn't released a record since 2010. Isn't that crazy? And I'm, but she's never released a bad song or a bad record.
Craig:Right.
Erik:So, that person has like an extreme discipline in knowing what the right time and what is good and they're not on a record company's calendar. And like I. You know, she has that power because she, is that artist. But I think people should learn from that too. It's like if, you're not extraordinarily proud of what you did, do not expect anybody else to be that way.
Maury:I just think what you do is so fricking cool.
Erik:Oh, thanks!
Craig:You've spent your life around, around sound, around creating art working with artists and it's fluid. If you had a magic wand and you could give people one gift of something that you think could help them help unlock their creativity or help them what's the one bit of advice you would give to people in the world or to the people you interact with?
Erik:That is a large question. What would I do? It would probably be something like, I would make an invention where it'd be like an artist translator because a lot of people are very About what they're saying is what they mean, and then I have to interpret that as what I'm hearing from them and what I actually know is possible and how to converge those two things together.
Maury:We asked that question, from your experience, but looking for sort of these questions too that then apply to all of us. Right. So, no, I think that's, I think in many ways that's spot on. Like I feel like people are really struggling to be heard and they're saying it in their way, but with a good listener, you can interpret what that is and then get them maybe to what they're really trying to say.
Erik:Yeah. Because I think a lot of artists like spend a lot of time. Working on the creative output and how to technically get there. I think the misconception is that because they're so incredible at what they do, that they're an expert in how that their sound works at all. Or like how to, string a guitar or like how to do any of the, kind of technical things. So I try to take as many obstacles away with, getting them like a fluid conduit between their idea and what comes out the other side. Some people don't wanna know anything about the technical thing and there's other people that need to know every granular bit of like how the sausage is made and I kind of approach people differently based on like what they're kind of telling.
Maury:Cause being an artist is scary and vulnerable. And even if you're really good at it, there's still this I've never lost my sense of, one, I want to be better. Please free me up to find that expression where I love how you described what every musician was like, their hands and their bodies have no, distinction from the instrument. Like that fluidity, right. Of when you're that connected. So anything that frees you up to be in that space it's, exhilarating.
Erik:Well, that's like where the magic comes. And that's what it is, like a lot of people live music. The best kind of concert experience is more of like how connected you feel to what like somebody's doing on stage. And the less that artist is thinking, the better that connection is. And that's like, when I was touring, that's like what I tried to do to contribute to the show is just get all the technical things out of the way so that they can just do their thing and know that I'm there. So if they unplug themselves, I'll plug them back in, know that I'm, watching them like the whole time. And then you, really see these like, great results. They're like traveling to new parts of the stage. They've never gone to, they're going for a solo they've never tried before.'cause they just know they sound awesome.
Craig:I love that.
Erik:I, try to just keep my clients in a creative state, which is different than a cause and consequence state, and that's actually counterproductive to creativity that I find. Sometimes people will come to my shop and they will rattle off all the people they know and like the, the connections they have stuff they've done, but that's mostly because they're nervous'cause they're, thinking I only will work with you, if I've heard of you before, which is completely not the case.
Craig:They're trying to impress you.
Erik:Yeah, but I was like, well that's great, but like that doesn't really matter in a sense of like what you and I are gonna do together. So I, try to like, you know, get them out of that, like trying to impress me,'cause it doesn't matter if I'm impressed, it's like, well what can we do together? Let me see how you work. Cause I can learn something so much about how somebody approaches an instrument, like the first chord they play on it, I can tell a lot by just like their body language from like,
Craig:Hahaha, that's cool.
Erik:Years and years of watching like these absolute, well, to use the term masters of their domain, you know?
Craig:Yeah.
Erik:Like and like how they approach things. And you can immediately tell if they're thinking about, oh, this is awkward. Or like, just with the, their shoulders or something, and you're like, okay, let's move on quickly from this, because you're gonna get stuck in trying to convince yourself that this is the path you need. But it's, like if they hit it the first time and they just get lost for a second, you're like, okay, we're onto something, you know?
Craig:There's a universal message that we keep learning from all of these interviews. And so you have mastery and you work in something very specific, and it's if, people could walk away from this interview thinking, what's something I could do in my day that I just learned from Erik.
Erik:I, struggle to answer such large questions'cause I try not to get too much unsolicited advice, but I think like when it comes to me in that question, I think of music and I think the thing that people don't do enough is actually listen to music with no distraction. Like, listen to music with intent. You'll have a wonderful experience and like try to like, pick out all the things that you hear, don't, always think you're listening to music while you're doing other things, like cooking or cleaning it. It's like I always play music, but like I listen to music with intent probably two to five hours a day if I'm lucky, you know? Which means like I sit there and I'll listen to something front to back and just try to like let whatever the message is being shared to me through the speakers, like try to absorb that.
Craig:Pow, you got it right there. That was it.
Maury:No, I mean that You got it because it's, I mean, That is it Erik? Because I, was raised in a Buddhist household, you know, it was eat when you eat and sleep when you sleep.
Craig:What are you listening to today that's got you excited?
Erik:There's a few contemporary things, but I'm mostly to the opposite, or I guess like that line's more blurred now. But, when I worked in like guitar music for so long, I discovered jazz and like electronic music and instrumental music. So I listened to enormously varied. Like today, I probably listened to Yusef Lateef a lot, who is a, saxophonist and flutist from the 50, 60 seventies and eighties.
Craig:Huh. Okay.
Erik:And then there's, a few people making records now that I think are doing kind of magical things. Like one of them is this artist his name's Nate Mercereau. He is releasing a record with a trio. It's for better or worse, let's call it jazz, but the, there's no singing. The last Strokes record was the best one they've ever made, I think I listened to Kate Bush today.
Maury:In your opinion, what might be three qualities of mastery?
Erik:Three qualities. Mastery. Well, it's not necessarily something that I think about a lot, but I think experience is probably the biggest obstacle to come over. When it comes to mastering something is putting in the time to know. And there's difference between. Intelligence and wisdom and and I guess like the other parts of mastery would be just like rearranging your life to let those things be possible. Because you can't do that if you're busy doing a million other things. It's the jack of all trades and master of none, which, we all do in some ways. But I don't know in a three bullet point way, how do I answer?
Craig:You, said make it a priority. Right? And what was your first one? Your first one was Experience. Experience. So the time, put the time in and you talked about 10,000 hours, make it a priority. And then when Maury was gone, you did bring up passion. You were like you, were somebody that. That followed a hunch that followed your gut, that followed your passion. You didn't know you could have a career doing this, and you're grateful every day that you kind of followed your heart, right?
Erik:Absolutely. I mean you, yeah. So you just translated me, which is what I do to artists, you know, like Yeah, exactly what you said is what I meant.
Maury:So my last thing I wanna talk to you about Erik the few minutes we have left'cause it came up in, in chatting with you prior to doing the podcast. And so thank you for doing this.'cause in a way, I think you were saying do something that makes you feel uncomfortable. I really felt like, I heard you talk a lot about wanting to stay out of the spotlight, really embracing a sense of maybe, of a little bit of mystery. Just in terms of. How you felt comfortable doing the podcast. And I, think that's so interesting, especially in the world we live in now, where almost the expectation that sort of deger is to be seen in as many places as you can and really get yourself out there. And what I thought I heard in you is a real commitment to maintaining a sense of mystery. And that led me to think does that inform how you are musically, like how you listen to sound and, bringing a sense of mystery into composition in music?
Erik:I think. A lot of people would think they're being very deliberate with sound and music and less mysterious. But I just, I take what I do so seriously that I don't wanna make it about myself, and I really do like a certain sense of anonymity and I love the people I work with, and I do not want to take any sort of power or credit away from like, how seriously magical these people are. And I, think I just don't want to fall in that thing where it's just like, I open a bag and throw like all the names on the floor. So I, kind of wanna just make it about what is something I can help you with? Like, let's be in each other's lives music-wise forever. So like I try to build each relationship as a one-on-one thing. And then like when you open that up to the whole outside music world, which is vast and confused and angry and you joyous and all these things, it's just too much for me to even like, absorb or respond to. So it just feels too big. And I, I think if you're in music and you take it as seriously as I do, we will connect. You will find me.
Maury:That's cool.
Erik:Everybody that I ever thought would walk through my door pretty much has, and they're coming for the right reasons, and it's not because I'm self-promoting and trying to tell them something they don't maybe need or know about or whatever. So I try to make it more about. What is it that we can accomplish together? Instead of I'm the expert on this and now I'm convincing everybody else around that I'm the expert, because I'm always wary of people that that, they're like, I'm an expert in this. And I was like, well, why are you telling me that? So I, I try to stay out of those things because I feel like they might have negative consequences to what it is that I love.
Craig:That right there was so beautiful, Erik, and that speaks to one of my favorite things on planet Earth, which is true humility. you want to make sure that, you are truly humble. Respecting the right thing in what you're doing and not making it about you, making it about the bigger thing. And we hear that a lot from masters. And so your exercise and your discipline around this isn't about me. This is about something bigger. This is about art, frankly, and this is about working with great artists. And I don't ever wanna kind of walk before God in that way and, fool myself that this is about, you know, that it's me'cause I know I'll destroy it.
Erik:Yeah. For me, the greatest reward is like, when I can hear it in the music like that, like at that point I'm done. I don't need to tag it, I don't need to credit it. Like I don't need people to take pictures and see about it. It's like when I hear it, I'm like, I'm done. We did something great. You know, that wasn't there before. And that is the goal for me. That's the only thing I care about.
Maury:That's, awesome. Well, I'm, I am, I should apologize to you in advance because we have like 17 billion followers on this podcast. Yeah, right? Yeah. Yeah.
Craig:They'll be storming your door for sure.
Erik:Change my name, disguise my place.
Maury:You got it right. You got it. No, you're safe. Alright. You're totally safe.
Erik:Well this, is like super great. You guys are very accommodating and I, really enjoyed it.
Maury:Erik, that was fricking awesome, man.
Craig:That was great.
Maury:I can't, thank you enough. So glad you came on. So cool to talk to you.
Erik:Oh you're totally welcome. It was a pleasure. I had a good time meeting you and then being on your podcast
Cutaway:And now it's time for the wrapper. Upper, upper.
Maury:That was awesome. I'm so glad I asked him to join us, and I'm so glad he said yes.'cause I think he was talking to Erik. Leading up to, it is Erik, forgive me if this is too revelatory, but he was a little hesitant to decide how he wanted, to be in the public eye and why. And again, with our zillion followers, it was a big, it was a big thing. I got some really cool stuff outta that. Again I think listening was really the overall thing. Not only does he listen to music and sound and an instrument and what an instrument can do, but he just seemed like he could also, he was also really able to listen to him himself in terms of his decision making in his life. You know, being able to, I brought it up, see that cubicle and go, you know, hear the message of that's gonna be it, like knowing these kind of moments where he could hear things to, that were a part of his life story. In his sort of three principles of mastery one that really hit home for me was making the time is the prioritization of it. I can have a million ideas and really exciting ideas, but I'll get distracted by a whole bunch of other stuff and I just didn't make the time. I just didn't set aside the time to do it. And so it won't be fed. You know, you don't, you just don't feed it. And lives are busy and full. So that one really hit home experience. Makes sense. And the one I missed because I had to step away for technical silliness lack of preparation was, you heard him say passion, but a lot of what I didn't hear him say that a lot, which I also thought was interesting'cause, I guess you have to have a passion. You have to have a desire and an excitement, a desire to stay in something. But there's a lot of ways I haven't always felt passionate about things. It is been more practical or just of slogging through, I don't know, stubborn. Maybe that's my version of passion. So whatever I'm gonna think on
Craig:I like that you're pushing back on that I feel you. I mean, it always feels like oh, you hear Tucker, he, now, he's upset
Maury:what's Tucker have to say?
Craig:Tucker, what's wrong? Hang
Maury:He's, to say.
Craig:real quick.
Maury:Sitting here talking to myself on a podcast with someone else, but I'm sitting here talking to myself.
Craig:So I like that you're pushing back on that. I think it is interesting, and I think maybe what you're pushing back on is that's a cool thing to say to people. Like, Hey, find your passion and follow your heart. And, not that easy to do all the time. Like, it's not easy to always hook onto your passion. And maybe it feels cliche sometimes, or maybe it feels like it's too, Romanticized and that a life is, life can be more practical in the moment. Do the next thing in front of you. And a lot of the masters we talked to, they're just doing the next thing in front of them. It just so happens in, in stepping back and looking at the lifecycle of the whole thing, it looks like this journey of mastery, really it's, there's a Tuesday when you're like, shit, what am I gonna do? I'm gonna do that.
Maury:Well, and I think I'm, I think what I'm really doing, Craig, is a little bit, this is all on me. I think I've got some inflated idea of what passion is supposed to be. It's more about me in terms of like, I think I'm already passionate, but I have an idea like it's supposed to be even bigger. So, so maybe what I'm really relating to is actually I is getting it. Oh my goodness. I'm having an epiphany. I'm actually quite passionate about things. It just, it's always felt like there needs to be more, but that's the way I always think. Like it's not
Craig:Yeah.
Maury:enough. Passion looks like this, but that's my own horse crap.
Craig:Okay. That's cool. My, my Wrapper-Upper has to do with with this particular interview Erik he kind of mentioned it in the interview. He is, he's a guy. not really interested in kind of marketing himself at all. Okay. And so he just was not interested in that. He was like I just am not interested in kind of turning the camera on, he's just like I will do this and talk'cause I'm interested in it, but I've just. Not interested in that kind of hype around the whole thing. And what's fascinating for me, if I'm being very honest is I heard that information and I needed to assign a story to that. And so I assigned a story to that, which is his mystery is part of his cachet, his mystery is part of his attraction, that his mystery is his brand. I'm, because I'm a, because I have a ferret weasel that lives in my head, I have to tell a story. About why he's doing that. Cut to the end you you asked that question and I'm so happy you did. It was such a great question. His answer, you know, was one of those moments where it's like, I was a hundred percent wrong, a hundred percent wrong in my head of the stories of why, he doesn't want to have the camera on, and it is because the guy is so self-aware and so grateful, and so in his fricking skin and his work and his life. He does not wanna walk before the thing that he does. He cares about the craft. He cares about the sound. He cares about the people he works with more than he cares about his own attachment to it or that people know that he's attached to it. And that was one of the higher levels of humility I've been in touch with. And so it started out that I had to assign some story about that. This, that, this is how this is the I, don't wanna say shtick because I feel terrible saying that, but that's what my brain wanted to say. And what it came out to be was one of the most humble human beings that was so honoring the work he was doing. And really what it is in me is I'm a guy, I want to do shit and I want you to see me doing it and tell me that I'm doing a good job. Right. And he's like, I'm gonna do a good job and you're never gonna know it. And I was like, holy fuck balls. That's awesome. So Erik, when you listen to this, I love that. And again, fanboy note, Maury, I mean, so, so neat to me, mindblower that somebody could have a professional career where they work with artists around sounds, where he's finding instruments, working with people to collaborate with them, to really get themselves out of their own way so they can be special. I mean, what a what? Who could ever imagine that somebody could make a career out of that. And we spoke to that guy. And by the way, off record, which I would never say these are big time artists. No, they're big artists. The names are big names. He works with big people and so it's very exciting work. I mean the stuff that he works on, we all hear. And that's his job. His job is to help the artist be a better artist. I mean how neat is that around sound? So thank you for bringing him. And Erik, thank you for being here. That one lit me up. Okay, here's the deal. I'm about to try a new piece of software. Good news is it works and saves me a ton of time. Bad news is we do this whole thing again. Okay? Talk to you soon.