Everyday Masters

Cooking Competitions, the Family Restaurant, and Oprah: Domenica Catelli

• Craig Diamond • Season 1 • Episode 7

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In this episode, we sit down with the renowned Chef Domenica Catelli. Join us as Chef Catelli takes us on a journey through her culinary career, from her early inspirations rooted in family recipes to her rise as an acclaimed chef. Discover her passion for sustainable, locally-sourced ingredients and her unique perspective on creativity in the kitchen. Gain insights into the concept of mastery and success, as Chef Catelli shares her wisdom and experiences in the world of food. Whether you're an aspiring chef or simply a food enthusiast, this episode offers a delectable dose of culinary inspiration.

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Domenica:

I'm passionate about helping people and passionate about making good food that's healthy. And delicious. If I focus on those things. That's it. That's all I gotta do. That's my lane. And I'm successful if I'm doing it.

Intro:

Welcome to Everyday Masters, the show where we seek to understand mastery. People who have it, people who try for it, people who struggle with it, and how we all manifest it in our own lives. Welcome to Everyday Masters. Everyday Masters. Everyday Masters. Everyday. Every, Every day. Master, every day.

Maury:

Hey, welcome to Everyday Masters. I'm Maury Sterling and I've been an actor for the last 30 years. You probably have no idea who I am,

Craig:

and I am Craig Diamond. I've been in marketing for 30 years. I've got a master's in psychology, and for sure you don't know who I am.

Maury:

We came up with the idea for this podcast because as an actor, one of my favorite things is getting to talk to the specialists they bring on, set all the people who come to set to help us actors look like we know what we're doing.

Craig:

And for me I've always considered myself to be a jack of all trades, but master of none. I'm pretty good at a decent amount of things, but not a master at any of them. I'm excited to learn how to become a master if that's possible.

Maury:

The aim of the show is to absolutely talk to people who are obviously experts. But we also want to talk to the everyday master people who've been doing things in their lives for years with passion and discipline. And nobody may think of them that way, but they are absolutely masters. Now welcome to this episode of Everyday Masters.

Craig:

Are you ready?

Maury:

Yeah. You start when you ready? You ready? Are we recording?

Craig:

Hi my friend Maury. How are you?

Maury:

Are you gonna keep all that before you said that the part where I said, are you recording? Are you gonna keep that part?

Craig:

No, I'm gonna, I'm just gonna start with the part where I go, Hey Maury, how are you?

Maury:

Because you wanna have we gotta make the audience like happy.

Craig:

Okay. Hey Maury, how are you?

Maury:

Oh, how's it going? Hey, Craig. What's going on man? Great to see you.

Craig:

Oh, good to see you too.

Maury:

Are you gonna keep that part though? That happened in between those two things?

Craig:

I, think I'm gonna start with a three back where it says,

Maury:

because they're like two. They're like two now, where it's like, Hey,

Craig:

Hi, how are you?

Maury:

Hey Craig. What's going on?

Craig:

There's a lot going on. How are things going at your end of the woods?

Maury:

I really hope you keep all of that stuff. I'm keeping it all.

Craig:

Is it okay to say your end of the woods is that a, saying? It's not a saying your end of the,

Maury:

I didn't know it shared woods, but that's a good one to look up.

Craig:

How is life in your neck of the woods? How are your woods?

Maury:

I think you're working it, life is quite full. All, departments are, needing attention right now. It feels like an invitation to some kind of dramatic life overhaul, but I'm just trying to keep it easy and simple in each one. But yeah, life's full. A lot going on, a lot of creative stuff going on.

Craig:

It's been cool to watch you. It seems like you do have a lot of cool creative projects going, and you're in motion, and I don't like that I'm not the focus of your attention, but it sounds like, you're living a full life. That doesn't circulate all around me.

Maury:

In this chapter of our friendship. That's true.

Craig:

Okay.

Maury:

There've been other times when that's not the case but, right now, yeah, like you're, probably like number 17.

Craig:

It feels like 17,

Maury:

Maybe even lower. How are you?

Craig:

Good at my end. I just wanted to say thank you to everybody who's listening whenever you're listening to this. Maury and I have been doing this now for about six or seven months. The response has been just so wonderful, and people reaching out and enjoying the show and wanting to be a part of it. And I really am enjoying doing this. And by the way, I did wanna say Maury, I love you to pieces. It is so fun to do this with you. And it's just been an amazing experience how we set out to do it, just really, thrilled with the whole experience.

Maury:

Me too. yeah. It's been a great adventure so far. What have you been tinkering with mastery wise?

Craig:

I guess if I take one thing from all the interviews so far is Mastery is really a journey. There are times I think I want to be a master at this. I want to be a master at that. And really what I've learned is try to find your passions. Like maybe I'm passionate about doing this, doing a podcast with you. I'm passionate about that. How do I become a master at that? I think by doing it, I think by making mistakes, I think by putting myself out there, I think by persevering, so I do think I'm learning. The masters we're talking to are rubbing off on me. I like this. I feel passionate about it. I want to keep going. I guess that's where I'm at. And enjoying the ride.

Maury:

Yeah.

Craig:

My brother, this week we have Domenica Catelli. She is what I believe to be a master restaurateur chef cookbook author, television guest, rama and food preparer to the stars. It didn't sound as sexy as it should, but it is sexy.

Maury:

I know. I was about to say it was pretty good. That was okay.

Craig:

Thank you so much.

Maury:

Summer, upper of her.

Craig:

Super cool, fun, friendly, funky human being this week, ladies and gentlemen. Domenica Catelli. Hey. How are you?

Domenica:

I'm great. I wish I was there in San Diego in person. I'd be even better.

Craig:

Today. You do. it's quite beautiful.

Maury:

Where are you? Are you in Northern California?

Domenica:

I'm in up in Hillsburg, Sonoma County, California.

Maury:

Yep. I know

Domenica:

it's not a bad place to be.

Maury:

That's not a bad place to be.

Craig:

Domenica, we're thrilled to have you here. You have a bio and a resume in front of me that is quite astounding the first question we like to ask people is, When you heard you were being asked to be on a podcast called Everyday Masters, what did you think?

Domenica:

I thought what am I a master of?

Craig:

Really

Domenica:

I'll be happy to talk to Craig. cause Craig's amazing. but yeah.

Craig:

Really Okay. Okay. Because,

Maury:

cool.

Craig:

You have a lot that we want to talk about. You have been in the world of food, let's say, preparing food, celebrating food for a long, time. Take us back to the beginning. it seems like this is a family affair, something in your family. Tell us about how you grew up. How did this whole Food Mastery obsession, passion start for you?

Domenica:

Great question. So it started back in 1936. Don't I look great?

Craig:

Wow. You do look so good. You must moisturize.

Domenica:

Yeah. With olive oil. My grandparents came from over from Italy. They opened the restaurant in Geyserville, California, which is where my current restaurant is, Catelli's third generation. So I grew up in a restaurant family. My grandparents lived above the restaurant. My grandma lived there my whole lifetime. And my dad lived up there until he left. He came back in the late sixties from living other places to take over'cause my grandfather had fallen ill. I was basically, say I was born in a bar.

Craig:

Really?

Domenica:

And my mom, who hadn't been a cook, she learned to cook from my grandmother and she worked in the restaurant when I was little and she was actually cooking the day she went into labor and left from the kitchen to go deliver me. So I've been in the kitchen time.

Craig:

She was there in the kitchen the day you were born?

Domenica:

Yeah. She said, oh I, think something's happening.

Craig:

Wow.

Domenica:

Yeah.

Craig:

So when did your passion kick in? can you remember a moment? Was this something that was like, Hey everybody, in the Catelli family must go to the restaurant? Or was it something you picked it up early, you had the bug so to speak.

Domenica:

It's a little of both. I had my, first early dream was to turn our restaurant, I think when I was around six or seven. I was gonna turn it into a McDonald's and a Toys R Us. cause those were the two things I wanted that I couldn't have.

Craig:

Those are really good.

Domenica:

That was my grand plan. There was gonna be nothing involved in doing food. And then I also thought that I wasn't necessarily gonna go down that road. Wasn't quite sure, but my mom says that I gave my first dinner party that I insisted on cooking dinner when I was like in third grade.

Craig:

Really?

Domenica:

I would, yeah.

Maury:

Wow.

Domenica:

Always cooking for everyone. When we were in high school and we would go bonfire out at the beach here, I would bring all sorts of stuff and make pasta out there and make steaks on the grill. It wasn't, it was a little bit more elevated and I just always loved cooking for people and sharing that and was also wary of maybe going into the restaurant business because I grew up in it and I knew what it was about and I wanted to travel and do other things and ultimately it just kept pulling me back in. So I worked in all areas of it and when I left at 17, moved to SoCal and I ended up being head chef at a restaurant in Laguna when I was 19, which was basically the point that they could get me to work for a ton for not a lot of money, not necessarily talent. That's where it started. And then over the years it, evolved. I went out front for a while and served, which is great'cause that's been really helpful in the trajectory of my career and owning a restaurant as I really get all aspects of what it feels like to be a dishwasher or a buser or a server, all of that. And then I left restaurants for a bit and then came back around and I opened, my first executive chef job was after my daughter Chiara was born for the Stanford Inn and Mendocino. And that was, over 25 years ago.

Craig:

I'm curious, you said I took a break from it. What was going on then that you took a break?

Domenica:

Part of it was when my daughter was little. The hours of being in a kitchen are not really. Good for parenting.

Craig:

Yeah.

Domenica:

And my husband we were gonna move, so that made that transition easier because he did his M B A in Chicago and I got connected to that point with the Oprah Winfrey chef. And then I ended up doing the food selling for my first time ever on a live TV show, live to tape. And he said, come on down and watch it, blah, blah, blah. And we're in this hallway. And the next thing I know, like 14 hours later, like through the night, getting ready, like dying sweaty. I did, I had my first thrown into the ring fire of being a food stylist on a TV show.

Craig:

Wow.

Domenica:

Which that means if someone's making a cake and there's the picture, you make a done cake, you make a cake, that's halfway done. You have all the ingredients in multiple, sure. But when it's live there's not a going back if something's wrong. So I'm in the background and I was like, he's going to pour in baking soda. And I'm thinking, did I put the freaking baking soda on the tray like the fifth time? Swore I'd never do it again. But once it was done, I got the bug. So that year we lived there. I was food styling on the Oprah show. So when other chefs would come on, our celebrities like Tom Cruise made carbonara like I, all the stuff that you see on the set.

Craig:

How was Tom's carbonara? About, yeah. How was that solid or No? A little weak.

Domenica:

Didn't actually get to try it, put it all the pieces out there and it's, yeah,

Craig:

I asked the hard hitting questions.

Domenica:

It was the best ever, Craig.

Craig:

I didn't know this. This is not on your bio. So you were a food stylist for the Oprah Show for a couple years.

Domenica:

Yeah, it was a little over a year. And then sometimes if there was a bigger show,'cause then one of my best friends ended up moving there and she did that job for a decade plus. And then from there we moved to Houston and then I wrote my book and then I started doing TV in Houston and was doing a cooking segment on the morning news. So I would do that once a week. And I was in that same time period I cooked for Oprah. So I'd get a call to go fly out to Montecito and okay.

Craig:

Okay. There's just so much to unpack in that, that one sentence, Maury, help me here. Unpack that.

Maury:

I was gonna rewind a little bit. The book is Mom-a-licious?

Domenica:

Yes.

Maury:

And what's, what is Mom-a-licious about?

Domenica:

It is quick, easy, delicious food that was good for you and your family, but whether you're a, a senior or a single, it was to work for everyone. I actually wanna put it back out there and rename it, because at that time our kids were small and it was about being delicious and being a mom and making food, inviting for your family. And what I know is the recipes transcend time. And they're actually, when we made the book, people didn't know what quinoa was. A lot of people didn't, you couldn't get kale everywhere. All these things that were right at the cusp of being more normal. But because I'm have like California some hippie blood in me, that. That was just part of our vernacular group upbringing, trying to make that accessible and easy. And, all the recipes, I did it with Celia, who's a busy working mom and not a foodie, not a cook. So making sure that they're tested, that what I take for granted, that I know if you're making it and you don't know what mince means oh, I have to break that down, if it's this, big or is that big. So little things like that. But that was the book and it was a lot of fun.

Craig:

Fun fact. Maury before Nicole and Craig were Nicole and Craig. Nicole and my one child, I think just Max, he's in the book. Nicole and Max are in the book. Remember that? That's before I met you.

Domenica:

The girl grouped picture too

Craig:

yeah, I remember that. That is so cool.

Maury:

I'm gonna get it. But then, yes. Okay. You said that you cooked for Oprah. How was that?

Domenica:

Amazing. There's a lot of times in life there's like this, the sliding door moment where I transitioned out of doing that and my husband and I joke, it's was that the right decision? I was, I loved it. She's an amazing human being. The people I got to meet and in that time period over the. I don't know, 10 plus years between doing the show and other things. It's like I just shake Nelson Mandela's hand. That's what make food for him to take on a plane. It's like what? My first call that I'll never forget was from her assistant saying, can you cook for Ms. Winfrey and Mr. Poer on Friday in, Montecito? And I'm like, see, wow, you'd hang out. I'd call my mother-in-law and say, can you watch Chiara? It's she's of course. So the answer was always yes. But then I'd get on a plane and play out and cook and it was awesome.

Maury:

From my impression watching chefs and I'm not much of cook, but the pressure of a kitchen, of a high performance restaurant is amazing. And being able to function at that level, the speed But was cooking for Oprah even more pressure?

Domenica:

Yes and no because for the most part, I know what I'm gonna make ahead.,we'll think about, what the meal's gonna be or give her thoughts on that. The bigger events, like our 50th birthday when everybody in the world was there.

Craig:

You did that too?

Domenica:

Yeah, the ones at her house I did. So it was like the private dinner. That's one of my best stories is that Alicia Keys came out, I'm making pizza outside on a grill, and she's Hey, what's going on? This is cool. And starts talking to me and I'm trying to act whatever.

Craig:

Yeah No, of course. You gotta act super cool. It'll cool. I'm busy. Yeah, totally.

Domenica:

Totally normal. But she was so lovely and it, after a second it felt normal, was just having a conversation and stayed out there with me asking me questions about food and what it was like to cook this and that and it was just awesome.

Craig:

But, back to Maury's question though. You, do a lot of prep. You filed to Montecito to cook for Oprah and a lot of high profile people, is the experience exhilarating? Is the experience stressful beyond belief? Is it only enjoyable after the fact? Is it enjoyable during?

Domenica:

It depends on what the event and what's going down. If things are going well it's exhilarating, it's awesome. You've got it dialed in when you're doing it and the one dish you're supposed to have, something goes wrong with it and you still have to get on the table and you're trying to figure out stuff and thinking like, can I like literally disappear and will anyone know? There's those moments for sure that have happened, but the pressure in the regular kitchen. That's more, I feel like infectious. If you have it and you like that, they say that chefs have a similar temperament, or like ambulance drivers and chefs where it's this rush and it's a short period of time and everything's a crisis and you've gotta get it worked out. It's not like you can sit there and a order comes in. I'd be like, so maybe I'll make that a little bit like, we'll see.

Craig:

Yeah.

Domenica:

It doesn't work that way. I, get calm under more pressure. I'm your person when there's a crisis, I'll be there, I'm not gonna freak out. Where I don't do good is when there's not a lot of pressure. Then I, dilly dally and stuff doesn't get done when it should. And all my A D H D is just what? but when there's like this thing to get done, or if I'm on the line and there's 15 tickets, it's that's it. You're just go, and okay. And everything just funnels out and you're just in the moment.

Craig:

Moving this along. All your TV shenanigans, I know they're fun and, cute, but tell us about the Guys' Grocery Games and Iron Chef America, so then as if you're not busy enough being an ambulance driver inside of a kitchen, how did that stuff come up? That was when I wasn't doing the kitchen stuff as much. I went back to the kitchen 13 years ago. The in between when I was doing the more TV stuff besides the guide. Iron Chef was when I did my book and I was judging and that was fun. The first one was nerve wracking because, I had never done it before. And was it my first time on national tv? I don't know if it was or not, but it was like that setting in and of itself was nerve wracking and the two people who were judging with me were anchors who were always on. Yeah.

Domenica:

And one of was super curmudgeony and kept teasing me and called me Pollyanna'cause I was trying to be nice.

Craig:

Ah.

Domenica:

Once I got over it and then the next time I went I was the veteran.'cause I had like a football player, Keshawn Johnson and a comedian person. And so I was the only real food person on there. That was way easier and fun. And then with Grocery Games, it is all the things that you asked Sterling, where it's exhilarating and awful and all. It's amazing when I win. When you don't win, it's not so amazing. It's because it's just such a nerve wracking thing and the cooking's in real time. Like people always ask that and it's yes. So when we stand at a line and we have a grocery cart and they say, go make all these weird, crazy things and go, I'm a compulsive shopper, so when I get in trouble is on a show, if we have full reign and everything's free and it's a grocery store, so if you have to hook with five things and you get to hook with 10,000 other things, my cart gets overloaded. I start oh, I can make this, I can make that. And I get up to my station sorting through all these groceries, like that's where my craze doesn't work. It's like I do better where there's five ingredients. I'm like, I could tell you 30 things I could make with that.

Craig:

In the name of mastery on Guys' Grocery Games, you were a seven time winner on that television show. What, were you so good at there?

Domenica:

So I think it's two things. I think one is no, if anybody else sees this, they're gonna know my gameplay. First round before you get, kicked out. All I worry about is what it tastes like. And I think a lot of people wanna show off too much and they get in over their heads. So it's like you get through round one and just, make yourself so you can get onto the next round. That's, worked consistently for me. I know I can make good food. I know I will taste it throughout and I will do my best. And the only times that I've got hung up is when I had too many ingredients and it put a crunch on my time. But overall, that's how I think I've done well, is that I, cook well under pressure. I say food talks to me, which might put me in the Looney bin when someone sees this, but basically.

Craig:

No, that sounds fine. That sounds totally fine. You're fine.

Domenica:

If I pick up a piece, basil, I'll like literally hear things in my head like, oh, you could do this, or It needs this. Or I just starts vibrating within me. I am really all about finding ways to deliver something that's gonna be really good in a small amount of time. And if there's corners that can be cut and you still have a quality thing to, especially on a show like that, if I go in and I get a delicious, pork chop that's this thick, it's not gonna be cooked all the way through,

Craig:

Right.

Domenica:

So I know I need to butterfly it. I know where other people might just throw it on and hope for the best or put it on too high and dry it out. It's okay, I'll get this flavor, but I'll know how to do this piece so I can get what I want.

Maury:

Has food, always talked to you?

Domenica:

I think so. It's not something I really recognize until I was and, realized that other people didn't have that too. So I just thought when you have something that's always there, if I open a refrigerator and someone says, oh, we don't have anything to make, and I'm like yeah, you've got this and then there's this, and there might be three random things in there Elias is one of my cousins, who's also my best friend, is one of the people who pointed that out to me. She said, I don't see that. I'm like, oh, okay.

Craig:

Food talks to me too, Domenica. When we have cookies in the house, I hear, COO-KIE, I'm in the jar. doesn't matter where I am. I hear. COOKIE and then I have to go eat the cookies. Is that similar?

Domenica:

No.

Craig:

Okay. Got it.

Domenica:

going

Craig:

Back a, sco so, there's clearly a moment based on already what we've talked about, where you must have realized you had a gift and a passion for this. What we are learning about masters is masters have passion. And, there has to be a moment in this story before you get to Oprah, before you get to TV before, before you get to, a, wanting to write a cookbook where you're like, this is my thing. Yeah. When was that?

Domenica:

It was after my daughter Chiara was born, because at that point I just turned 25. Thought I was so old and I was like live my life now. I gotta figure it out.

Craig:

Downhill slide at 25. Yeah, exactly.

Domenica:

cause at that point I was like maybe I'll do this or maybe I'll do this kind of thing. There was still like all these other things I like and have, to play around in. And so I thought, no, I gotta pick a lane. And this is something that I know it's in my bones. And I don't know at that moment if I would've described it as passion, as more of being practical. But I think the innate part of it that is in me made that decision really easy. And what I've now understood over time, our restaurant's, the longest I've ever done anything in one place because I like to create something new. Creating is my passion and our business is so successful because it's the same consistency year over year, time after time. So what happened was I saw over time by putting in those hours that, oh, this is now something, it was in my bones. It was in something that was naturally inclined to if someone's born and they have a good voice and they like to sing, you could have someone else go to school and learn how to sing. But I feel like my skillset, part of it's that it's something that came within my bloodline, perhaps. I don't know. I, can't take credit for it. I have a big nose, so I think that helps me smell really well, and that's a really big part of taste.

Craig:

I'm, not great in the kitchen, but I'm gonna go with, it's more than your nose. Okay. That's my expert opinion on the situation.

Domenica:

Oh, okay. You are.

Craig:

Getting back to mastery.

Domenica:

I've been avoiding this question. If you haven't noticed.

Maury:

The mastery question?

Domenica:

It's a very intimidating word. And I, and it's, yeah. Makes me,

Maury:

Just so you know, I think that's, what's been evolving for us in doing the show is it's, more a question of like, how do you feel about the word? Because most of the people we've talked to are like, I'm not a master Why the hell did you ask me to be on this show? Yeah, okay. I don't, I dunno know what you're talking about. And, yet I think,'cause I feel the same way. There's a lot I've done in my life that I've put a lot of time into and effort, but I've never felt I was a master of things. I've studied for 20 years, but still don't. So it seems to be this journey that's unfolding and it's much more about maybe we can help each other though in some way of go what I do to get better at what I do. So you're not alone.

Domenica:

Yeah.

Maury:

You were asking a question, Craig, and then I went off on one of my things.

Craig:

Domenica. He does that. Yeah. It's, okay. Just let him go. What, we have learned from people who are accomplished in something is typically they don't sit well with the word. What do you think you're really good at these days? What are you trying to master these days?

Domenica:

I feel like I have a wisdom from doing things for as long as I have and growing up in this business. So one of the things I'm passionate about is actually helping. Younger people who are interested in this business, who are coming up and share the things like the pitfalls, the things that I've learned by trial and error. And a lot of times our best lessons come from when we fall flat on our face and then we figure stuff out. So not everybody's gonna listen, but there's also things that are really helpful. Basically when I get an idea about something, I don't think logically, I just get passionate about it and we're gonna do this. So when I, for instance, when I said I really wanna open reopen Catelli's, and we got that chance and my husband's in finance and I went and told him all jazzed up. And he said, forget it. That's the worst business in the world. Like they, 2% of them are successful, or whatever it was. I was like, it's a dream. I'm gonna figure it out. Went about getting that to happen, but I didn't think about I'd been out of being in the day-to-day restaurant business for a decade, we opened in a recession and we were in the wine country with all these other chefs that, had big restaurants and not enough people, like all these details that I didn't happen to work out ahead of time that I got to. So when I've had people I know who have been in restaurants or things around here, and they're going on to do something, I'd love to share that. I'd love to say, these are the things that I found that worked, or here's a way I found better pricing. Or here's a shortcut and. There's those things I'm consulting on another project right now and I'm really enjoying that. It's like I have a passion for that'cause it's cre helping create this new space. And there's a really talented young chef who's the day-to-day chef de cuisine and I'm the executive chef, but really my role is to help foster his talent and work through the menu and go, okay, and also my knowledge of this dish might be delicious, but from a business standpoint, you can have one of those on if it's your passion dish, but execution's too long, food costs are too big and there's these certain pockets that really transition into business being successful, I find in this business to make sure you're, in the 2% that make it. And that's what I'm, I really am enjoying that piece right now.

Maury:

Is there something specific when you talk about like fostering his talent, is there something specific you can talk about in that? Or what that would look like.

Domenica:

It's different for everyone. This particular person hadn't run a kitchen at this level before. He is naturally super creative and makes great food, but the pieces of what it takes to turn that into your weekly orders, your inventory, how to prep this in a way that you don't get your ass handed to you, because you didn't prep up in the right way. So those type of things are just the practicality of execution of an idea.

Maury:

Yeah.

Craig:

And it sounds to me like we're leaning into this passion around being a chef and preparing food. But what you're talking about is the business of food is a big part of this too. How to make it a sustainable career. A restaurant is a place that has expenses and how do you have income and how do you operate efficiently? So the food's delicious, but that it's not just all dreamy and passion project and making no money kind of thing. Is that right?

Domenica:

Just because you're a good cook doesn't mean you're gonna have a successful restaurant. So that's the piece of it that I, find challenging, but also exciting. And then the food piece of it, I love plant-based food. I love vegetables. I love doing things with them that are. Unexpected or changing people's minds about what something they thought they didn't like or letting'em know. You just had that and it was, the sauce, this creamy sauce was actually made from walnuts or something that you didn't know. And that was during the pandemic. I was started to get, to have more time to dig into some of that. And then we reopened up sooner than I thought. So that's been on the back burner, but I wanna get back and revisit that'cause that's really fun for me.

Craig:

Plant-based. What's that about? Why are you so into that? What's one thing you'd want people to think about? People that might be like, eh, it sounds weird. Is it gonna taste weird? What's your pitch on plant-based food these days?

Domenica:

Also for people who think it sounds weird, they probably like cheese pizza, which essentially is, besides the cheese is plant-based. It's, tomatoes and wheat and water.

Craig:

Yeah. And some, right? Yeah. Sounds good.

Domenica:

There's, spaghetti with tomato sauce. We really skew that way and they just don't think of it.

Craig:

Is there a health aspect to it? Is there a sustainability aspect to it?

Domenica:

What are you, it's health, there's sustainability. I did a, some work with with the mushroom council years ago, and just the amount of water that it takes to grow a certain amount of mushrooms versus that same amount in, producing beef they're, night, and day. Eating less meat is, in my opinion, and certain research is better for your health and better for the planet. So that's part of it. I also really like them. I'm, but again, I live in California and in a rural area that I have access to amazing things. I've lived in Chicago in the winter, and there I know about food deserts. It is something I'm passionate about, but I also recognize isn't always accessible for everyone. But I think becoming, hopefully more like even places like big box places that, I don't even wanna say their name, but somewhere like Walmart. They're the biggest seller of organics in the country. The fact that they even have that Yeah. Is shocking. But there's, yeah, we wouldn't be able to go anywhere else. And they actually can go in and get something. And that's their grocery store that's available within 50 miles.

Craig:

By the way, you both know I'm incredibly mature. I just like to envision what the mushroom Council meeting looks like. I don't know why it just my brain can't, my brain is painting picture of the Mushroom Council and I don't know, I just, I need to go to the Mushroom Council annual. You're what? Air holder meeting, which your visioning is probably so much cooler.

Domenica:

So much better than what the reality, what those awards mean.

Craig:

Ah, the Mushroom Council. Okay. Maury, you were gonna say something?

Maury:

I was, we don't think of ourselves as masters, but I'm assuming in the world of cooking, you've been around maybe other people who you might think are masters and or inspire you. What do you see in those people that you think makes them masters? And two, what inspires you?

Domenica:

Alice Waters Nancy Silverton, Julia Child. Yeah. People who were trailblazing and especially, we are still, the minor women are still the minority in, kitchens. There's more and more of us, but, probably when they were starting it was like less, 10% or less, right? The type of Alice Water brought, California cuisine she is part of the reason we all have certain ways of cooking that we do. And Nancy's created this amazing restaurant group, but started as with LaBrea and did all of these incredible things and has built really successful businesses. So they're people I, that I love what they do and their food and the world, and they're great humans. And then, I forgot part two.

Craig:

Everyone did, everyone does that. Nest did like a question and a question. What was part two?

Maury:

What inspires you.

Domenica:

I, love eating out. I love going to new places. That's my happy place. So I had an amazing food tour in Chicago. I was there, I don't know, a few months ago, and I, oh, Chicago's one of my favorite food cities in the country. And there's always such new and interesting things. And I had one dish that was this broccoli dish with some sort of like creamy, delicious sauce thing. And there was, and it was plant-based. I'm like, what's some stuff that's in here? And I was like, there was tofu and there was something else. And I heard two ingredients, saw it. And then when I have something, it, something in me clicks that I go back and I'm like, okay, I'm gonna make a rip on this. And it was awesome. I made it for my nephew's graduation dinner and everybody loved it. But it was just taking something, seeing it. I get, that's where my inspiration comes. Travel. I love to travel. I love foods. I love to cook foods from all over and have that influence. Catelli's is harder to do that in'cause it's Italian based, but doing other special events and things, I get to do that.

Maury:

Yeah.

Craig:

Whether it's about you or somebody else, what do you think are three keys to mastery.

Domenica:

Repetition over time. The openness to always learning. to be fluid with the learning process and being open. If you found the answer. That there still might be a better answer down the road. Keep pushing keep, seeking, keep pushing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Hey friends I was playing a rough cut of this interview for my wife, Nicole. She had a great point. She's like, Did you ask Domenica some simple tips and tricks for all of us to be better in the kitchen. And I thought. Nooo. And so I called Domenica. I asked her exactly that. I'm like, what are some really simple tips and tricks that could help normal people in the kitchen? What's what are the common errors? And what do you suggest? And here's what she said. She said have one really good sharp knife. And she said a lot of people overlook this, but when you cut with a really good sharp knife, you feel a sense of mastery. You feel a sense of control and this is one tool that is not to be overlooked. So everyone needs one good sharp knife. She also said a lot of people in the kitchen complained about space. So it's good to have one big cutting board. It'll create space. You can even lay it over your sink. If you have a small kitchen and she said, this can be a game changer. To change your experience around cooking. And then the last big one, she said. Is if people want to add some quick flavor that is easy to do. Your keys or fresh lemon, fresh lime, fresh herbs, and maybe a little bit of vinegar. And so she gave me a couple examples. If you make Mac and cheese at the end, add some chili flakes, add some lemon zest, add some fresh time, or basil these kinds of moves at the very end. Can really kick it up a notch. And she also said a lot of people talk about, I don't have time for dinner. I don't have time for dinner. She's like buy rotisserie chicken, And at the end, put some lime juice on it and some cilantro and just little moves like that at the very end. Can take something ordinary and kick them up a notch so i hope that helps talk to you soon

Maury:

You said two things that really stuck with me, Domenica, that, that were interesting'cause it wasn't necessarily that cooking was your passion, but at age 25, out of practicality, you made the choice to go into it. And then you also talked a lot about practicality with, helping this new chef. And there's this really interesting dance between almost that's your mastery. If I were to give you one of recognizing the passion piece of it, it's there seeing it, knowing that's a part of it, but that you've got this cool skill, even maybe, even though you maybe weren't conscious of it at 25, the actual, by making the practical choice, that kinda led you down a path. Of doing all these other things, namely because when you talked about giving it back, that's what you were helping this other chef do. And I, that just really stood out for me as that.'cause that's a skill to be able, yes. It's like you're saying it's amazing if you're great at something, but also to bring it into the world and kind of a functional way. That's a real skill. That's not that. So anyways, that really stood out. That's cool.

Domenica:

Thank you. I feel like I just had a little mini therapy session.

Maury:

That's what's been fun with this is like hearing people tell their story and through the story it's, there are these blind spots I think we may all have, cause we're, I'm always striving for that other thing and I miss maybe the little mini victories in the day. That was like, oh, these were a series of wins. I'm so blinded by the next thing or the ambition or the desire growing, getting better. I actually missed a little oh, that was cool, huh? Neat. It was so just in your story. That was neat. That stood out.

Domenica:

If I could say one more thing on that. What I realized, and it ties in I think, to a back question, is there's, the mastery part is it doesn't feel like it's there because there's always this part to learn. And then also with the evolution of social media and food on TV so much, it's like I could see oh, I'm not doing that and I've been on tv, but I have a friend, who's on TV every week, or they have, I have one restaurant, they have three restaurants, right? So there's this, oh, that's, I'm not there. But it doesn't, if you are at the top of the. Food chain. Then you're at this position where it's someone coming up underneath me and am I gonna have to do this next thing and keep upping myself? And I've just really recently come to a place and it's it doesn't matter. I'm passionate about helping people and passionate about making good food that's healthy. And delicious. And that people don't feel like they're missing out on something because it isn't bad for you. And if I focus on those things and being creative, I love to redo a space or make the whole environment come together, like for an event or a party. That's it. That's all I gotta do. That's my lane. And I'm successful if I'm doing it. I, heard something, someone say, you feel good about it. If I'm waiting for you to like it, I'm fucked. Great. If I really love this and this is great, then it's all good.

Maury:

Yeah.

Craig:

That right there. You summed it up beautifully, by the way is, what Maury and I are learning, is how do you define this word? This word is a very tricky word to define, right? Because is mastery about television appearances, does that make you a master? Is mastery about the size of your bank account is mastery, about the amount of restaurants, And it's not

Domenica:

Yeah.

Craig:

Mastery exists with or without those things. Is the truth, one can gain mastery and not have a big bank account. One can gain mastery with no restaurants. You know what I'm saying?

Domenica:

We like to have many and have no mastery.

Craig:

We label all this stuff, we saddle it with all this stuff. What we're trying to discover in ourselves is we all may be really good at lots of things, and there's probably mastery all around us every day. It's, do we see it? Do we honor it? Do we honor it in ourselves? Do we honor it at each other? And that's what we're celebrating here. That's exactly what we're doing.

Maury:

It's cool.

Craig:

All righty, Domenica, listen. Thank you so much. Listen, we don't care what you think. You are an everyday master and I want to eat some of your delicious plant-based foods, and I want spend more time with you and you're just a wonderful human being and a bright light, and we are so thrilled you took the time to talk to us today.

Maury:

Yeah. Thank you so much for you.

Domenica:

It was nice to meet you. And now it's time for the wrapper. Upper, Upper.

Craig:

Okay. I'm gonna go first on Wrapper-Upper ready because I don't want you to steal my Wrapper-Upper.

Maury:

One of those, huh? Okay. Go.

Craig:

Domenica. Man, she's cool. She is just, she's really cool. She's just really cool. Okay. Really cool. So I was thinking about my Wrapper-Upper with her and it's dovetailing with all these masters that we're talking to. I find it fascinating that people, we talk to people outside of their bubble about their mastery and they're very clear to be like I don't know if I'm a master in that. And. There is something fascinating going on for me in the Wrapper-Upper world of how come a master that has clearly done, made food for Oprah, has a cookbook, been on tv, been a food stylist, won these cooking competitions, how come she's nah I'm not really sure. there is something fascinating to me about mastery that we from the outside look at somebody and go, wow, that's a master. And then you ask them and they're like, nah, I'm not really sure. Because I saw in her the knocks of the journey of mastery. So maybe that's my Wrapper-Upper. I don't think there's an easy way to get to mastery without getting some bumps and bruises, I think pursuing a passion has bumps and bruises. And so when you ask somebody, you're like, Hey. And we've done this a lot, how does it feel to be a master that's oh man, it's almost man, it took a lot to, I can't even believe you'd say that. And it took a lot. Like you almost have to have it beaten out of you, that you're a master in order to be one or some, maybe that's it. I don't know. So with her, I felt The humility is so genuine because of the journey and the struggle, but the achievement and the accomplishments and the skill and the hanging in there are all there. So to me, yes, Domenica master talking to her, she's oh, where I really have my passion is helping somebody else. That to me, is a fascinating aspect of what we are uncovering.

Maury:

I feel like I've heard that a couple times. That piece of giving back either just evolves in the path and that's just a part of the path, or it's a fundamental piece of mastery where there's a give back, there's a return yeah. Interesting. I, guess I'll reiterate what I said, talking to her, just hearing how two of her major decisions were based on practicality, and yet they led her also to another expression of her skill and what she has to offer and what she knows. One oh, I gotta survive. I know how to cook. I guess I'm gonna do it. Which didn't sound like a decision based on passion at all actually. And then later on when she was helping that other chef, she was talking about was, I'm gonna help this guy, and help him along. That really hit home.'cause I think there's there's, so much often about, follow your passion, I think Mike Rowe on Dirty Jobs talked about it. You may not be good at your passion. Yeah. Which, might be a really rough ride you may love it, but you may actually not end up being good at it. And, so what do you do with that bump? You just keep going or do you? I really liked hearing that piece of this ride too, that not all these decisions in life to follow and find. What you think of or the outside world thinks of as success or, a cool, life? The choosing from the practical may also be if not equally of value in this ride. The sort of letting necessity guide you cause I want fun, I want adrenaline, I want excitement. I want all this stuff. I'm noticing a lot that often when I make decisions from excitement. It's often not great because I'm blinded by the noise. It's so loud about my passion or my emotion about it. I actually don't, I may not make the best decision or kind of see the field clearly.

Craig:

I remember Barb talked about that. That was her idea was. Why don't you get good at what you're good at instead of just what you wanna be good at kind of thing. And, Domenica maybe has lived that where she got great at something she was good at. You're right. Just I do think we, we rally around passion a lot on the podcast. think you need to be good at stuff. I think people get passionate about stuff. They're good at. Yeah.'cause it's fun. It's, you're like, oh, pretty good. I'll do it.

Maury:

And the passion, to your point, I think the passion or the bigger purpose or a bigger mission I is what's gonna walk you through the bumps. That's what's gonna keep you going. That's what's gonna pick you back up again and say, I'm not gonna give up. I'm gonna try it again. I don't care if I'm good or not. I just wanna do it and I'll get better, like you said in the doing. That, energy may be the piece that keeps us buoyant and, moving forward.'cause yeah, you're gonna, and anything worthy seems like you're gonna get, potentially gonna get knocked in the teeth a little bit, It's just part, of the deal.

Craig:

I, did also notice,'cause I've, seen this with you and some of our other guests. If there's something out there called the Academy Awards for best actor. How can you be an actor and call yourself a master? If that didn't happen for you.

Maury:

Sure.

Craig:

If you didn't hold the trophy. And I heard in her saying, how can I be a master if I only have one restaurant? Which implies to me that, for the master there's, some. Pecking order, man, that's not the wrong word, but there's some something quantifiable that says you're only allowed to say this if, something happens. And you and I know in our heads that's not true.'cause we're even talking to people we know. Yeah. That's some kind of construct we picked up. It's not really true. You can be a master with one restaurant, right?

Maury:

Oh yeah. I think the dance between being really good at something, being a master in something and achievement. But we know a lot of people who've achieved a lot of stuff. Yeah. Who are not masters.

Craig:

There you go.

Maury:

Or maybe they are

Craig:

right.

Maury:

Maybe they know one thing, which is getting stuff and they know how to play that game. I don't know. It's an interesting crossover. of

Craig:

Hey folks, if you are interested in learning more about Domenica Catelli, of course, if you're in the town of Geyserville. Check out Catelli's third generation restaurant also The Element restaurant in Sutter Creek at the Hanford House Inn is the new restaurant. Domenica is part of. You can check out Mom-a-licious the cookbook, and I'm sure you will catch Domenica on the little television near you at some point.

Maury:

I just got a text from a foreign number. Saying that my U SS P S package arrived at the warehouse but could not be delivered due to any complete address information. Please confirm your address and the link. It's a scam correct? It's not real.

Craig:

Just take a picture of your debit card front and back send them the photo. Send'em a photo and your social, that's the first thing you do when you get those texts like around send your social. social. picture your mom's social your routing numbers. And not bad. Send'em a picture of a check Write in to cash and

Maury:

Oh, that's smart. That's super smart. That's a smart, that's smart. That's smart.

Craig:

See you. Talk to you later.

People on this episode

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Craig Diamond

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Maury Sterling

Host