Everyday Masters

The Art of Staying Married and in Love for 60 Years: Siggie & Dodo

• Doritt Diamond, Sig Diamond, Nicole Diamond • Season 1 • Episode 10

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In this special episode, we have the honor of hosting Dodo (Doritt) and Siggie (Sigmund), Craig's parents, and a couple who have been married for an incredible 60 years! Their journey began in middle school, and now they share their secrets to maintaining a lasting and fulfilling relationship.

Join us as we delve into their remarkable story and discover the key to their enduring love. Despite facing challenges and skepticism from others, they persevered through open communication and unwavering commitment. Learn how they navigated difficult times and embraced the changes that come with different stages of life.

Get ready for an insightful conversation filled with laughter, honesty, and profound wisdom as Dodo and Siggie shed light on what it truly takes to build a lifelong partnership. Whether you're seeking relationship advice or simply intrigued by their remarkable journey, this episode offers invaluable lessons from true masters of love.

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Craig:

There's a vase on my parents' dining room and here they are Sigmund and Doritt. Reading you what it says.

Dodo:

Doubt, that the stars are fire.

Siggie:

Doubt, that the sun does move.

Dodo:

Doubt, truth be a lie.

Siggie:

But never doubt, that I loved you. Aw,

Intro Song:

Welcome to Everyday Masters, the show where we seek to understand mastery. People who have it, people who try for it, people who struggle with it, and how we all manifest it in our own lives. Welcome to Everyday Masters. Everyday Masters. Everyday Masters. Everyday. Every, every day. Master, every day.

Craig:

What's up Craig? Hello? Hello? Hello. Hello. How are you? I'm great. How are you? It's nice to hear you cuz it's a podcast. I can hear you, but I also see you with my eyeball. No, it's we.

Maury:

Yeah it's a See I know, I understand. It's a see or here? It's both cuz we're doing the YouTubey thing

Craig:

too. Yeah. Okay. So fine. So then I'd like, it's nice to hear and see you. I'd like to sear you. Sear, and it's nice to sear you. This week everybody. Really a fascinating episode. For obvious reasons. We interviewed my parents, Sigmund and Doritt Diamond, and I was going up to LA to see my parents to do the normal, like check in with my parents who are in their early eighties now. And my wife and I, Nicole, were heading up there. And then it occurred to me, I called Maury, I said, this year my parents will be married for 60 years. 60 years. And Maury and I are newer married guys and we talk a lot about our marriages and relationship and all the normal stuff that friends talk about, and I thought. Holy crap. My parents have mastery in a thing that we talk about a lot. Wouldn't it be cool if we sat down and talked with Siggie and Dodo, that's what we call'em, about marriage, about relationship, about how the hell they have done this and these two love each other you're not gonna believe it. End the coolest part. Super added bonus. My wife Nicole, sat in on the interview. So we all sat there, the four of us with, and Maury was on the computer and it was this super cool thing. And I gotta tell you, it was wild. It was like a, like a brain bender for me. I was part kid, I was part interviewer. I was like, I. Inside. There were stories I heard there were perspectives I hadn't thought about. I was thinking as a child, as a husband, it was huge. There was a huge emotional hangover after the thing. We talked about it all weekend. Everybody was lit up. And I learned a lot. We all learned a lot by doing this. And my parents were just like, wow. It never even occurred to them that they had mastery. So cool. And the whole thing was just this crazy ball of family wonderfulness. This is a, big one for me.

Maury:

It was so amazing to be a fly on the wall and watch the dynamic and, really get a watch you, Craig. Take this more maybe objective seat and really ask them questions. It wasn't necessarily earth shaking, shattering kind of stuff, but it was just to see you in like really talking to them free from the emotional stuff we all experience and family dynamics have this. Yeah, there's an objectivity on it and, to see Nicole do it too and, clearly see the connection between Nicole and your family. It was great. And, they really are perfect for the show. And how I, know envision the show in the way is that's, mastery. It's just something they have done for, these decades. And I love how you said we're like newly married. Like I'm about to have my, I think ninth anniversary, Right, and I'm at 10. You're at 10, but compared to 60. Yeah. We're maybe just figuring it out. Right. And that came, that made sense in a way also listening to them. But I, was. I just felt so lucky and grateful to get to be there and talk to them and, yeah, like I said, I think they were really, they were perfect for what I thought this show would be something people who have done something that many of us talk about and here are people who say, yeah here's how it works for us. It, was awesome.

Craig:

Yeah, get ready for the Diamonds, Siggie and Dodo on, Siggie and Dodo this week's episode of Everyday Masters. I think we could do a half hour chit chat. We should get going.

Siggie:

Okay. My God, you said this isn't a professional performance.

Maury:

I love you both and most of the time I love your child, but occasionally he's just...

Siggie:

I mean...

Nicole:

Very bossy.

Craig:

Look. Look

Maury:

Bossy!

Siggie:

Oh, God.

Nicole:

Just trying to do a whole follow up.

Siggie:

I haven't seen the guy in years.

Maury:

Yeah.

Craig:

Do you guys wanna finish about Barbie?

Siggie:

No, I don't wanna talk to him.

Craig:

Finish about Barbie.

Maury:

No, I'm with Sig, I'm not talking anymore.

Siggie:

I'm finish

Craig:

Finish about fucking Barbie.

Siggie:

Just ask your stupid questions.

Maury:

Let's start. Are you recording this? And the answer is yes.

Craig:

Welcome you guys. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi.

Maury:

I'm so excited.

Siggie:

Yeah.

Craig:

For the listeners I'm sitting in what do we call this room? Dining room. Dining room. That's right. The reason I don't know the name of the dining room. This is my childhood home. I'm with my parents, Sigmund and,

Siggie:

Hi!

Craig:

Doritt, and my lovely wife Nicole. We call'em Siggie and Dodo. Maury, you can decide what you wanna call my folks. And we're in the dining room of the home where I grew up in Woodland Hills, California. Coolest part about this room, Maury. years ago, there would be a drum set right in where we were sitting, in this room. No. I used to rock out to heavy metal with the drum set right here. That's how cool these parents are.

Maury:

And for those of you who are listening one day, we'll we will put up in the archives, we'll show you some of what Craig looked like at that age. Cause his hair so great. It's so that's why you couldn't figure out how to call it a d most people know how to call a dining room, a dining room. But you didn't know because,

Craig:

Drum room.

Maury:

Cuz it was the drum room.

Craig:

That's right. I know this is the drum room.

Maury:

You're good parents.

Dodo:

Thank you.

Craig:

Siggie and Dodo, we are so excited to have you here. Can you tell us on July 4th of this year, What special event will occur?

Dodo:

It will be our 60th wedding anniversary.

Maury:

Wow!

Dodo:

60 years on the 4th.

Craig:

60 years.

Maury:

Wow.

Siggie:

And we have known each other since we were 13 years old. We met each other in junior high.

Craig:

So our masters today, we think we have masters of marriage, masters of the relationship.

Maury:

My first question was, did you know at 13 when you met, did you know then?

Dodo:

My story is I was sitting in a bungalow at Louis Pasture Junior High School, looking out of the window, and I saw this really cute boy outside the window, and I said to the girl next to me, who is that?

Maury:

Wow.

Dodo:

And she said, oh, that's Siggie Diamond. He's really cute, but he's trouble. Stay away.

Craig:

Uhhuh.

Dodo:

That was trouble. First moment, eighth grade. First moment Uhhuh. So did I know. I knew.

Maury:

You knew.

Dodo:

Did he know? No.

Craig:

All right. Sig, did you know Sig?

Siggie:

No. You didn't know? I, didn't know Doritt at all. It took, I don't remember how long. But, and then even when I met her for the first time, she was nice, but I was after more wild type woman. She didn't fit into that mold right away. Later on we became friends, but I only looked at Doritt as a sister. I was very protective, and I would fix her up on dates, and then I would threaten the guy. If he tried anything, then I would break an arm or dislocate his kneecap. But I would always fix her up on dates, never thinking that I wanted to go out with her, or she even cared about me.

Craig:

Let's do the timeline because Maury there's a big surprise for you in this story. Walk us through the timeline of the major milestones that get us. To 60 years of marriage.

Dodo:

For the quick overview. I was crazy about him from the first minute and he did not know I existed. He then became my friend.

Craig:

This is high school?

Siggie:

The end of junior high, beginning high school.

Craig:

Okay.

Dodo:

So he became a friend. I went out with his friends. I always liked him. He didn't like me. I was a nice girl. He didn't you, he was not very interested. So he had a very serious girlfriend in high school and when we graduated from high school, he was still going with this other girl, not me, but they broke up for a minute and he actually called me and we went out on a date after we graduated from high school. And of course I was very excited, very happy. It lasted like a few minutes. He then went into the Coast Guard, came back from the Coast Guard, and again, this other girl was not available for the moment. So he called me again for a moment and we had some dates and I thought this was, it was really happening. However, What I didn't know is he was still seeing her.

Maury:

Oh.

Dodo:

And we had a date planned for New Year's Eve. He calls me, he cancels a date for New Year's Eve and on that day he gets engaged. He then, oh, okay. Married her.

Craig:

He married her.

Dodo:

I was not invited to the wedding. Everybody I knew went to the wedding except me. It was really a horrible experience.

Siggie:

Well, but wait tell them.

Dodo:

No, this is my story. Get to tell later. So he got married, five, 500 people at the Beverly Hills Hotel.

Maury:

Wow.

Dodo:

They got married during the time that he was married. I, of course was very depressed and at a few weddings that I went to, cuz we all were part of the same friend group. I saw him and at one of these weddings, I was sitting eating my dinner and I looked up and I saw he was staring at me across the room. I have to understand, he's now married. I haven't talked to him at all for two years. He's looking at me. He then goes to my friend Linda and tells her that he's leaving his wife and that he really wants to be with me. She starts crying. She drags me into the bathroom at this wedding and says, he won't believe this Siggie's leaving her and he wants to marry you. I went, this is never gonna happen.

Craig:

How old are you at this point?

Dodo:

21 maybe.

Craig:

21.

Dodo:

Maybe 20.

Maury:

Wow.

Dodo:

Okay. Maybe 20.

Nicole:

Wait, how long were they married for?

Dodo:

Six months. So he hasn't left yet. So then I get a phone call from a friend of mine. It was an artist. I have an art project I wanna show you. Is it okay? I go to his house and as I'm looking at this project, the phone rings. And he says to me, would you get the phone? The phone is next to him, like right here by his hand. He said, would you get the phone? I'm like, over there. I said, why You could get it? He said, no. Would you get it? I pick up the phone, hello? It's Siggie on the phone. Siggie says, I have to see you. What are you talking about? He says, I'm coming over. He comes over I, he walks in the door. I look at him. I see that he's not wearing his wedding ring. And he says, I've left her. I said, I don't believe you. We go for a big walk, come back and he says I'm done. I, made a really big mistake. Not only had he married the girl that he loved, but he was working for her father. Let me tell you how complicated this was. So anyway, a long story short, we started seeing each other. I could never tell my parents I was seeing him because of course they hated him cuz he had dropped me on my head and gotten married. So his friends came and picked me up and dropped me off on the corner and he would pick me up on the corner. We would go out.

Craig:

His friends, everybody was really concerned at this point. Like you were like, should I give him another shot?

Dodo:

They were all saying,

Craig:

And what was everybody saying?

Dodo:

Don't he'll go back to her. And you're like, ridiculous. You shouldn't do it. But did I listen? No, because I've loved him so much, I couldn't stand it. This went on for a few years. I finally told my parents that I was seeing him, that I wanted to get married. They were not in favor of it, but we did get married on the 4th of July, 1963.

Maury:

Hold on.

Siggie:

I'm even exhausted.

Craig:

Yeah.

Maury:

Before you go any further, I just wanna make one comment cuz this is a show about looking for elements of mastery in our lives and how we do these things that we all struggle with. So what I can see, for those of you who are just listening, you can't see it if you, when you go, when we have a YouTube channel and you do see it, what I think is amazing right now is both the couples in front of me, I think they're both holding each other's hands,

Siggie:

Right.

Maury:

and I think that's really interesting. Okay. Just make that observation.

Craig:

Dad, did you have any, beats in there you wanted to add?

Siggie:

When Doritt and I started as friends, she was a confidant. I was going through a very, dark period in my personal life. And we would go out for coffee, go to the beach and sit and talk, and I could always talk to her. So I never looked at her in other than a real friend. As far as getting married, yeah, it was annulled I was only married six months. The irony was for me, when I decided that I had to get out of that marriage, father and I were alone together at his house, and he had a major heart attack and died my arms.

Maury:

Oh my God.

Siggie:

And I couldn't save him or do anything. I knew then that I was in an unhealthy relationship. And my go-to person was Doritt, always. And that's when I really knew who and what I had already.

Craig:

And you've told me that you realized you actually were like in love with the father. This father, he really loved this man actually.

Siggie:

The family.

Craig:

He loved the family. And when the father died, his, he realized what he was left with. Is that right?

Siggie:

Yeah. My whole family died. At that time when I met Doritt at our friend's house and talked to her, I knew I had a hard road to her to convince her. I knew her parents never liked me. So it was a question of building some trust. I knew it was going to take some time.

Maury:

Sure.

Siggie:

And that's really what we started with. So we started at a very early time in our relationship to build trust and very open communication. Which has always been our backbone. We come from two different really different. Backgrounds, family dynamics were from one end to the other.

Craig:

In a nutshell what, were the different dynamics?

Siggie:

I came from a very, abusive background, being an only child. Andor came from an adored, loving, caring family.

Dodo:

Being an only child.

Siggie:

Being an only child.

Craig:

Two only children by the way, also interesting.

Siggie:

Doritt had the misfortune of knowing my parents and actually seeing and understanding what I was dealing with or what I had gone through, and I have seen her lifestyle, but never up close because her parents, believe it or not, really didn't let us in the house. They just really could not ever, forgive me.

Craig:

The lovely and talented, Nicole, now.

Nicole:

Keywords, I'm hearing best friends. And you can't listen to anybody but yourselves when you're falling in love.

Dodo:

It's true. Except along the way here, because all of my friends, even his friends,

Siggie:

Yeah.

Dodo:

Did not support us getting together. They didn't trust it. Nobody. Nobody trusted it.

Nicole:

Or your parents?

Dodo:

My parents for sure. But even friends said he's gonna go back to her. This isn't gonna happen. So I went to therapy. I was going to UCLA at the time, and I went for therapy for six months there at my last visit, the therapist, Dr. Ingham, I remember said, you know what? You're strong enough to handle this. Go for it. And I thought, wow. Because I was sure he was gonna say, this is a mistake. He didn't.

Craig:

So in light of the fact that you guys had a tricky start. Of the friends that they have. It is safe to say that all these other people with whatever, how else they fell in love. Was it safe to say that 90% of them are now divorced?

Dodo:

Correct.

Siggie:

And remarried.

Craig:

And remarried. Okay.

Maury:

Sig just got it outta the way early.

Craig:

Here's my question. As you roll into 60 years, people are different in their teens, twenties, thirties, forties, fifties, sixties, seventies, eighties. People change. To me it makes sense that people would break up. It does. Cuz I think people, their lives grow in different directions. What has kept you guys together for 60 years when literally everyone around you broke up?

Dodo:

My answer is, I just adored him. I just loved him and adored him and I knew he loved and adored me, so no matter what happened, That was the core of our marriage. And he's a person who can seem very nice right now, but he's a tough guy. He can be not nice and not friendly and all this. And people would say to me, how do you put up with this? And I would say, I don't care. I just love, I just,

Craig:

I don't know who they're talking about Dad.

Dodo:

I just love him. So I just love him and I loved him. And that's what was the answer.

Craig:

What about for you? What has kept you together when everybody else has broken up?

Siggie:

I swore to her that I would never lie to her or ever cheat again. That we would always be best friends and we are best friends. We had absolutely no problem. As soon as Covid hit, we had so much fun just being together in the house. We developed a certain little routine in the morning and in the afternoon we planned our meals. We cook together. We just enjoy and laugh and have fun together. I think it's an attitude.

Nicole:

Are there any deal breakers?

Dodo:

Deal breaker meaning what?

Nicole:

That it would end this amazing 60 years.

Siggie:

Anything that I could not forgive her for, right? Whatever, that I would honestly have to say there probably is nothing that she could ever do or say that we could not work out or repair because of the type of communication we have built and the relationship that we have of honesty.

Nicole:

When it comes to the big times where things aren't rosy, things aren't great, things are scary, you don't agree, what do you do?

Dodo:

Talk about it.

Siggie:

We talk about it. We,

Dodo:

Communication is a key.

Siggie:

Absolutely.

Dodo:

Marriage, we talked about everything.

Siggie:

We've had a saying between us as a lot of people I'm sure have heard. There's three sides to every story, and we have learned if we make a mistake, we own it. Either apologize or deal with the feeling of why you might have said something that hurt her feelings or embarrassed her because I must be honest, there are times I have embarrassed her.

Craig:

You!?

Siggie:

Yeah, I,

Craig:

Oh my God.

Siggie:

Look, I've been known to make a couple of mistakes,

Craig:

Really?

Siggie:

But I do own up to it. I don't try to get out of it, but it helps me to become a better person by getting it. Taken care of right away and not waiting six months or two days or three days. It's taken care of within a day.

Maury:

Siggie and Dodo. How did you feel when your darling son Craig asked you to be on a show about mastery?

Dodo:

I was so excited. I was honored. I was honored, and I thought, oh my God, am I a master of this? Huh? I didn't even ever think about it, but it was a big honor.

Siggie:

I, was nervous. Okay. As, as, much as I'll talk, I don't like really having the limelight on me. Sure. I'm not that kind of a person.

Craig:

I'm so happy to share these two with the world and, Nicole and I talk about them a lot. It is an incredible thing to have two parents that, that love each other, that like each other, that want to be around each other, that are rooting for each other. In light of all the different kinds of relationships we bump into in the world it, is really wonderful. And I just wanted to ask each of you, mom, what is your favorite thing about Siggie?

Dodo:

I think my favorite thing about Siggie is that he's probably always game for anything. He's got a very open attitude to things. He doesn't like to do everything that I like to do. I may not like to do everything he likes to do, but he's always open.

Craig:

And the same question for you. What is your favorite thing about your heat? By the way he calls her his Flower about your beloved. I know, it's crazy. It's true. This is a real relationship, ladies and gentlemen. It's really true. What is your favorite thing about your Flower?

Siggie:

I love the fact, which I call her Tinkerbell. She has an outlook on life that I wished be honest with all these years together. That I would have her attitude. She never finds fault or sees bad in people where I grew up quite the opposite, to be very honest. Okay. I was a very angry, violent person, but she always has the bright side of life.

Maury:

Another question we like to ask in terms of talking to people about their field of mastery is, can anyone be a master? And the way I'm hearing it today in terms of marriage is can you have a successful marriage if it doesn't have, cuz the way both of you were talking about it is you knew there was something you knew that love that you both felt once you found it. Once Siggie wised up and knew what was really going on, he got his proverbial crap straight. Once he got through that thing. We have to get through to find that. Can you create that? Can you develop that? Or do you have to have that from the beginning?

Siggie:

To be able to accept Doritt's, strengths, and to know my weaknesses. I have left my ego when it comes to Doritt and myself outside. I respect her strengths as she respects my strengths. And vice versa. We, play off of each other that way. Which has been a very, important lesson for me. Men don't ask for directions or big boys don't cry. That's never been an issue between the two of us.

Dodo:

So somehow I felt that for me marriage was, gonna be a lifetime commitment and that's what I wanted. And because I loved him so much, from the time I was a little girl, it just seemed like it was a fatal complete. This was my guy, this is what I was gonna do. And I knew what my mother said. That a marriage is work.

Maury:

So that's interesting. You knew that the work, you weren't just assuming because I love him and I have these feelings, it's gonna be a dance in the park. That's right. You had a sense,

Dodo:

I knew it was,

Maury:

because that's certainly been cuz you hear people say that, but then in my experience, when you actually hit the work spot,

Dodo:

Yeah.

Maury:

You don't wanna do it.

Dodo:

That's right. You hear it. But when you actually have to do what the work actually is, right? No, I'm not doing that. I'm out.

Craig:

Can I ask that question though? Nicole and I have talked about this a lot. The relationships are work thing.

Dodo:

Yes.

Craig:

I, have a different spin on this one guy spin, and I think Nicole and I bond on this. I think my relationship with Nicole is pretty easy. I think when you strip away the stressors of life, money, kids work, stuff like that, she and I are great friends. Being with her is great. It's easy. We, like to do the same stuff. I don't like the phrase"Relationships are work". I think life is work. I think the stuff around a relationship requires work. But the being in love with Nicole and being with Nicole in my life is pretty damn easy for me.

Dodo:

Becase neither of you is a problem personality, neither of you.

Craig:

Thank you. I've been saying that for a long time.

Siggie:

I came with a lot of baggage.

Dodo:

Siggie a tough guy. He's a package. He's a,

Craig:

Hang on. Nicole's coming in,.

Maury:

It's getting good folks.

Nicole:

I think that there is work always to be done,

Siggie:

No question.

Nicole:

And that Craig and I have a deal that if any of us call it that we have to go to therapy. If something gets to a point that we can't meet eye and eye, we both agree no matter how bad it is, how bad we want. We'll go. No questions asked. We are never allowed to say divorce word. Think it, walk it, talk it. You're not allowed. And individually, we work very hard on ourselves. So life is gonna be in session, mean work, kids, money moving, everything you can think of. But we both separately work very hard on ourselves. So when things get tough, we have people, professionals to help guide us, meet in the middle.

Siggie:

It, took me a long time to get help other than Doritt, and because I really came to our marriage. With a lot of trauma and baggage. It was her strength and understanding that helped me to be where I am today.

Dodo:

Sweet.

Craig:

Oh, they're kissing.

Maury:

Yeah. It's amazing.

Siggie:

People used to say, I'd either be in jail or dead if it wasn't really for Doritt. And I thank her all the time for having her little Tinkerbell personality and her understanding of what I went through. And it has not been easy.

Craig:

As your child, I don't wanna know this, but I do wanna know this, was there ever a time along the way where you guys got close where you thought, we're not gonna make it?

Siggie:

Yes.

Craig:

Whoa. That was quick.

Siggie:

Once.

Craig:

What was it?

Siggie:

I can remember as if it was yesterday. Our first son was, I don't know, six months a year old. I was still jumping around from job to job, and I came home one day and Doritt looked at me and she says, I cannot take this anymore, of the instability of me not working full-time or lying about getting fired or whatever. We sat down and we talked about it, and I said to her, at that time, I give you my word, I will never be out of a job again and not support my family.

Maury:

Wow.

Siggie:

As Craig knows, I worked in my first profession 37 years, hating every day that I went to work.

Maury:

Wow.

Siggie:

I was successful, but I hated the job every day. As you, you do know, but I never broke my promise to Doritt.

Craig:

For all us young bucks out there that are wanting to learn from the masters. When you look around, you've seen a lot of marriages bust up over the years. What's a similarity between a lot of broken marriages? Is there one common thing that happens that we all should be on the lookout for?

Dodo:

That's a good question. At one point in our lives, we were sitting around the dinner table in the room right next door, and Craig Diamond said, how come you guys aren't getting divorced? What do you mean, why aren't we getting divorced? Because every single person he knew the other of our friends, all of our friends were getting divorced. So why aren't you getting divorced? I said we don't wanna get divorced. We love each other. He couldn't understand it. Exactly. I don't know if you remember that. It was like why are you, so I think that what, I've seen with all the divorces and all of them, and there's a lot of them, is that in every case there was some kind of abuse, either emotional or physical or verbal. There was some kind of abuse in almost every case that ultimately the woman couldn't put up with anyone.

Craig:

Ah typically, came from the man and the woman couldn't take it anymore. Just was, is that the common one?

Dodo:

Yeah, and the and of my friends. Of my friends. That was typically what it was.

Siggie:

And most of the men were cheating on the wives.

Craig:

So infidelity the most common thing. It was a, or you're saying it's any kind of abuse.

Siggie:

Yeah.

Craig:

That could be a,

Siggie:

Exactly.

Craig:

Any abuse.

Siggie:

Yeah.

Maury:

So, don't, don't marry a man is what I'm hearing. Just don't,

Siggie:

Yeah.

Maury:

don't marry a man. Yeah. I remember divorce hitting my town like, a virus. It was, yeah. It was post seventies and everybody had made a, coming out of the fifties and sixties with all kinds of rules of behavior and how it was supposed to be in the seventies hit and everybody started experimenting and it just, it all fell apart.

Craig:

Can I ask you guys, Nicole and Maury, like your, both of your parents were divorced. What's it like sitting with these rock stars in light of your own experiences and whatever fallout comes from being a child of divorce? I always felt like. I the coolest parents ever that always loved each other. I never needed to worry about that thing in my life.

Nicole:

For me, I might do this backwards. What I noticed, the biggest difference that I've never seen is exactly what you see even in this podcast. What I tell people, give you an example. Last night. So we're all tired, we're going to bed. Siggie's heading upstairs, it's 10:30, it's time for bed. Doritt's not tired. He's tired. I see him turn around on his heels cuz she's not ready to go to bed, and he comes downstairs to hang out with her. There's these little moments that I look in awe, I just didn't see that. And they're holding hands they really, watch out for each other in these moments that easily I could miss and I didn't see that. So in my. Life. It was survival of the fittest. You take care of yourself first and whatever's left is for everybody else. And ultimately that didn't work. And I think getting that from someone that saw this, took a while to get used to.

Craig:

By the way, last night also, my dad came in from being out. The three of us were there. He, of course, we haven't seen each other in a while. Big, hug and kiss from me. Big hug and kiss for Nicole. And then my mom's over relationship. Me, too Me too. But after 60 years, she doesn't care if she's third. She's getting her hugging her kiss as well. And that's an important thing when he walks in the door. Still to this day, that's huge.

Maury:

No, it's huge. I know.

Dodo:

That's the glue.

Maury:

That's the glue.

Siggie:

It didn't come naturally. I had to learn how to be sensitive to other people's feelings. Because of my background and trying to be a survivor, I had to learn which people might not understand how to be warm and sensitive and have empathy and sympathy and not just be a hard stone cold person, I make it a point, I really have to think about it when I get outta my car. All kidding aside, when I come in the house to find, Doritt and walk up and give her a kiss and say hello when the kids are here, I make it a point. Because Nicole,

Craig:

So it's a bullshit hug and kiss for me. When you, when you walk in, you're saying it's all a train

Siggie:

except for me and Nicole.

Craig:

Oh, okay. Got it.

Maury:

That's what I'm hearing, that I'm not hearing that.

Craig:

Other ones you gotta work at.

Maury:

I'm hearing a couple legit ones and then one gotta... nah.

Siggie:

Yeah, this is an afterthought, but I run from Nicole first.

Craig:

Smart, smart.

Maury:

Yeah. To answer your question, in terms of my parents I think they came together for the time they were together. My sister and I got created and they were not meant to be together. What, changed my life in the last three years? Because I think of myself as a pretty nice guy. But my nice kindness is often not, I don't know if it's actually really real. It's my, you were a tough guy. I'm like, nice guy. I think some people might hear what you were choosing to do, Siggie as that doesn't sound very romantic, but I think one of the biggest epiphanies really in my life that happened in the last couple years, truly was you can't love someone until you love yourself. How many times you read that on a card? Finally it hit me. And I'm middle aged. What came from that was learning. I, was given an exercise, which is to write five things I love about myself and five things I love about my wife every day for 10 days. And I can't repeat. And what was interesting was day four I woke up and I was like, I don't like myself very much today. And frankly I don't like her very much today. So to have to choose it, to have to find something, what opened up was one, like you're saying, you gotta get outta the car and make the choice. The things that all of a sudden drove me crazy were the things I started to love that really changed everything. Cuz I think we all have an idea. I had an idea of what it's supposed to look like. Love is supposed to look like this, but part of it I'm hearing is the choice that today I'm gonna buck off all my nonsense. And I'm gonna walk in there. I'm gonna show them despite this is who I love and this is where I am. And I just think that's so important to hear because I think part of where I've gotten in trouble is if it's not like this all the time, then screw it. Instead of, no, you gotta sometimes just make that choice to be, I just, I'm hearing a lot of you guys saying respect, respecting each other.

Siggie:

When I come home from driving an hour on the freeway and I'm exhausted. And I know going up and finding my wife in the office and giving her a kiss hello. And asking her that makes me happy. And it makes her happy.

Craig:

By the way, real quick. This is also amazing. Mom, are you happy today?

Dodo:

Very!

Craig:

Sig, are you happy today?

Siggie:

The happiest I've ever been.

Craig:

These two are so happy and so in love at 60. It is the most inspiring thing of all time. just gotta tell you. Okay,

Dodo:

Thank you.

Craig:

Did you have something?

Nicole:

The recapper, cuz you know I love and my head is spinning too, Maury, of the takeaway that I even like you Sig. I didn't grow up with that and I was the survivor. Then I met who came from you affectionate and present and loving and holding hand and I was like, whoa, what are we doing here? And I love it, but it is definitely not what I saw and what I came from. So it is something that can be learned. But like you said, and I need to, even hearing this, that exercise to remember I'll come in. It's been a hard day. I'm tired, I'm grumpy, I'm starving. I'm in my own head. And to pause and sit in the car, the takeaway, the glue, we're pretty good at it. We could be better. I could be better, is to pause, shake that off. Give myself a moment, come look for my husband and give him a kiss.

Dodo:

Oh, nice.

Nicole:

And that is such a nice gesture regardless.

Craig:

And I think that would be great. I think you should do that. Yeah. You should sit the car and then come gimme a kiss. I like it. Solid. Okay, I'll work on it too. I give a kiss. Alright.

Maury:

Oh yeah.

Craig:

What are the keys to a long marriage?

Siggie:

Communication.

Craig:

Okay.

Dodo:

Deep love.

Craig:

Deep love. What does that mean? What is deep love?

Dodo:

Love can be like a card or I love you or whatever. To me, deep love is something more serious. It's deep. It's more than just surface. I love you. It's deep love.

Siggie:

I'll tell you what deep love is. There are times when, like for our anniversary, Valentine's Day, we'll go to CVS and try and find a card. We don't find a card. Go and re-give one of the old cards that we kept,

Maury:

Oh wow.

Siggie:

And put a new date on it and re-sign it. And we give each other. The same anniversary cards we gave 10 years ago.

Dodo:

Deep love.

Siggie:

That's deep love.

Craig:

Maury, a card in this family is real oh, the words in a card and what is written are not surface. They are not fluff. They are delivered from the heart. So what they're saying is they can't find the one this year that says what they wanna say. And they've already said it before, they would rather go find those words again, which they have.

Maury:

I love that.

Craig:

And give it again.

Siggie:

Yeah, We do.

Maury:

I love that because again, I feel like there's so much in our culture, there's gotta be new, a new card, a new gift, a new thing, a new like you're, instead of no, I meant what I said the last time. It's the same. I just, that's awesome. I love that. My wife's gonna hate it, but I love it. I'm kidding. I'm like, listen, I did this podcast and I'm just gonna keep giving you last year's gift. Is that cool?

Dodo:

It works.

Maury:

That's deep love. Siggie said it.

Craig:

I always felt like watching the two of you, you absolutely loved each other, but to me there is like just such an obvious, like there is a friendship. To me,

Siggie:

Yeah.

Craig:

I think a key to a long marriage. Is you have to be very, good friends. And, being good friends means your, boats are aimed in the same direction. You want the same stuff. Like you guys don't seem to veer too far away from each other in terms of the journey of, a life together. And it's the reason why holding hands and going to the movie, you have always had a friendship that, that Nicole and I have. And I've always just watched that. Sometimes you want love affairs to be explosions in skyrockets. But what I think I've always seen are these really sweet moments. The kiss when you walk in and, like a deep, friendship. And wanting to be with each other. True. Do you agree with that?

Dodo:

Absolutely.

Siggie:

Absolutely.

Dodo:

Absolutely. We didn't say it before, but friendship for sure.

Nicole:

But the learning curve, I guess as a listener and someone that was married before,

Craig:

Ah, second marriage.

Nicole:

And see this, I do observe and I do watch you guys and I want to model those things, and I think that glue, the exercise, the sticking in there, the in the moment, when you guys maybe start to bicker something, a person's willing to stop and not be right, I notice, instead of, oh, I'm getting my point across. Maybe we'll talk about this later. I watched these dynamics. That I never saw before. That makes, it seems, again, trying to model that makes this work and being best friends. I would never say these mean things to my best friend. I wouldn't be screaming at my best friend. I would say, I need a break or I'm upset. And that's what I see you guys doing.

Craig:

And also for sure my whole life. You're not going up my mom, Sig will stand up and defend. There is a, an honor,

Maury:

Yeah.

Craig:

And a protection that you have never seen before and visa versa. My mom will not give up on him, nor will she, like she will let you have your opinions about what if he's. If he has an odd moment, but she is not gonna leave her post as, his protector as well.

Maury:

It's interesting to me cuz that's what I heard. That is exactly what the two of you talked about when you described the beginning of your relationship. Dodo you, knew that he was the guy and you could see through his stuff and, Siggie you talked about, she was my friend, I'd set up on dates, that's changed, but then I would protect her. You, had this and those dynamics. That's exactly what you just talked about, Craig. And then that's been there. From the get go.

Craig:

Oh yeah.

Maury:

This embracing those real strengths. Yeah.

Craig:

What are some other things that you guys do that you think are, available to everybody that might be special in your marriage?

Dodo:

Two things. One, even as I'm sitting right here, I always like to be touching him. I will either be holding his hand or like right now I'm sitting and putting my foot by him. I always like to be touching him, so at some deep level I always like feeling that we're together. It's a connection, like a kiss before we leave or a kiss when we come home. Another thing that we do that's really important to me is that if we have a doctor's appointment ever, we have a doctor's appointment and this, was even when we were both working, we would try to figure out how to do it. We would have us both go. I'd go to the doctor, he'd come along. I wanted to have him there to hear what was happening. I wanted another pair of ears there. I wanted not to have to worry that maybe I missed something. And I think Siggie felt the same way. He wanted to be sure that he didn't mishearing something. So we'd always go together, even if it was something really simple, just to be there to support each other and to know that we both heard the same information.

Maury:

How did you end up so screwed up, Craig? I just don't get I'm like know,

Craig:

I know, it's weird, isn't it? You would think.

Siggie:

He has the chutzpah to blame me that I passed it on in jeans.

Craig:

I, realize how, lucky I am to have been raised under this incredible marriage and incredible love affair. I feel incredibly grateful and fortunate to have had this modeled for me because the truth is, I did see it, I saw it every day. it's what I know in a relationship, we're always trying to do our mini version of what we see with Siggie and Dodo. Dad, Nicole and I, we have to laugh because we play a game at our house called"I Do More Around Here". And"I Do More Around Here" is a way that we can laugh off the fact that we're keeping score. And there are times when I feel like I'm doing more around here. I'm emptying the, I have to go shopping, I'm cooking more, I'm cleaning more, I do more around here, I do more around here. We had to come up with a game early to take the, steam out of this one. And we laugh about it called, Hey, do you wanna play? I do more around here because we each start feeling a resentment. It's not fair. I do more around here. Do you and mom. Play a game of, I do more around here. Do you guys play tit for tat?

Siggie:

As long as we have been married, we have never been in competition with each other. We've never kept score. We have never, tit for tat or I go to the market or why don't you do it when I'm not home? Or, the funny thing is since I've retired, we don't go to the market unless we can do it together and we even enjoy going to the market together and we go up and down every aisle whether we need anything or anything. And we enjoy shopping together.

Dodo:

So for me, some of the household duties, household responsibilities would fall on one of us as opposed to the other as it does I think in, every marriage. And as Siggie said he used to leave early, he was never here when I woke up in the morning. I never saw him in the morning. I never saw him till dinnertime. What's happened since we've both been home now, especially during Covid, we've come up with these cute things that we do. One of them, and Siggie always hated making the bed, like if he was ever home on the weekends, like making the bed was, and I never understood like, why do you hate making the bed? It's like such a simple little thing to do. He didn't wanna make the bed. It was rang something from childhood, I don't even know. Anyway, so now we make the bed every day together. We get out of bed, he goes, do we have to make the bed? Yes, we have to make the bed. We make the bed every day. And it's really funny and it's nothing to do it, it takes exactly two minutes, but it's something that we do together so I don't have to run around the bed and make the bed because he makes it with me.

Craig:

Why is that important?

Dodo:

Because it, it helps me. It's it's, part of my, daily thing is that I'm gonna make the bed every day because I'm not somebody that would ever leave the bed unmade. So I know I'm gonna do it, and I love the fact that he'll help me do it. And it, has become a routine. It's the same thing, like with the laundry. Like I always did the laundry because I just always did the laundry. Now I do the laundry, I bring it in from the garage, I throw it on the couch and we fold it together every single week. So once a week we do the laundry together. It's just nice. It's just like an easy thing to do together.

Craig:

See, I think there's mastery in this. I think that doing these things together is part of the glue. Would you agree with that?

Siggie:

Absolutely. We, actually laugh about it. In fact, the cutest thing when we do the laundry and we do The sheets when we make our first crease and I bring my end to her, we kiss and then we fold it and then I bring the other end to her and we kiss and we do that that's our folding routine.

Dodo:

I will say that, at dinner sometimes if I'm like in a meeting or I'm doing something and Siggie will make a salad, I'll always say to him, thank you for making the salad. I realize I don't have to say thank you, but I do. I'll say thank you for making the salad.

Craig:

Oh, that's a big one. So you, do you guys say thank you to each other a lot?

Dodo:

Yes, Thank you for making salads.

Siggie:

Yes. There will be times that. Yes, I'll wake up cuz I get usually get up a lot earlier than Doritt. I'll get up and empty the dishwasher. And every time she'll always say, thanks for doing that. Sometimes we'll both take a little nap in the afternoon and we like to eat around six o'clock. So while she's sleeping, I'll make a salad. I'll set the table and get stuff ready. So when she comes down, dinner's basically made and ready for her, and she says, thank you for doing it.

Dodo:

Yeah.

Craig:

And you don't feel pissed that she was taking a nap while you were making dinner?

Siggie:

No, I'm making her happy. I'm making myself happy, and we just enjoy doing things for each other.

Craig:

Amazing. Are there any other things, any other little routines that you find, maybe they're quirks of your relationship but you, do regularly?

Siggie:

Yeah. We, have a cute routine every morning. I'm downstairs early, Doritt lets me know when she wakes up. I get up, turn off the TV I go upstairs, get back in bed. We always kiss and then we do a meditation together, and then we play Wordle, and then we do Waffle, and then we plan our meals, our lunch, and our dinner. This is our routine every morning, and if there's something we need and Doritt has a Zoom meeting or something, I'll say, do you want me to run to the market and get some something or any,"No. Wait till I'm finished and we'll go together."

Craig:

Ladies and gentlemen, these are real people. This is a real relationship. I have watched it. Ladies and gentlemen. These are real human beings.

Nicole:

In terms of communication, what do you think makes you special?

Dodo:

I think our love for each other is so deep that giving it up is never an option. It's not on the table. It's always that we'll find a way to work out anything. There's nothing that we can't work out and we will just persevere.

Siggie:

And I go by the philosophy, a quitter never wins and a winner never quits.

Craig:

Because I think in Nicole's question there are people that talk about the dreaded D-Word, DIVORCE or they, have conversations of, should we stay together, should we not? And what I hear you say is no, you guys have not spent much time with that being an option on the table when you talk.

Siggie:

We have never brought up the word divorce.

Dodo:

Long ago, when I was first in love with Siggie, I thought about the fact when we finally got together that if I hadn't married him, if I hadn't been with him, I was in terror. Really terror of the fact that if I married somebody else and if 20 years later I saw him somewhere, that I would leave my husband, leave my children to go be with him, I couldn't resist it. And it scared me, the thought of how much I loved him and that some kind of power, some kind of connection that I would throw my life away to go be with him. So it motivated me to stay with him, to always know that we're gonna work everything out, because he was like my destiny. And I didn't want to ever, tamper with that, cuz that scared me, that what would I would do to my life.

Craig:

Wow.

Nicole:

And what is being a best friend to you?

Siggie:

Acceptance, non-judgmental and not trying to change. Doritt, accepting her for who and what she is. Accepting me for who and what I am, and giving each other the opportunity to make the changes that will compliment each other.

Dodo:

For sure. Siggie is my best friend, and I also have another best friend, a woman, best friend from childhood who's still my best friend, but Siggie is my best friend because to me a best friend is someone who you can be open and honest with about everything that you trust that person enough. To be honest and open, and I'm not like that with most people in my life. I'm not like such a open person with people, but to my best friends I am. You have to like somebody in order to love them I think?

Siggie:

Yes. That's always been our foundation is we like and we enjoy being together and sharing the good and the bad, the happy and the sad, but we always do it together.

Craig:

Maury I think we're in agreement that these two are, marriage masters, right?

Maury:

Heck yes.

Craig:

Heck yes.

Maury:

Yes, We're gonna get t-shirts made for you guys.

Craig:

Siggie Dodo, my lovely wife, Nicole and Mr. Sterling, thank you for a wonderful episode. Diamonds are forever. Trulys are forever. Diamonds are forever.

Maury:

Thank you both. I just have to say thank you so, much. What a treat. What a real, what a real treat.

Dodo:

Thank you.

Siggie:

It's lovely seeing you too.

Maury:

Yeah, likewise.

Craig:

Thank you everybody for listening and we'll see you next time. We love you next time. Bye-Bye bye. Thank you. Bye-bye. Thank you. Bye. And now it's time for the"Wrapper-Upper". Maury that's 14 parts. Family therapy, eight parts personal therapy, one part podcast host, three tens husband eight tens friend. That is just a wild experience that,

Maury:

You're not a banker, are you?

Craig:

I'm not a banker. You right. That, that didn't add up. That was super cool. I felt like it was so cool. Such a nice gift to give to my parents that they could sit in being so wonderful at something. It was so cool to sit and realize they are really wonderful at something that is not easy to do.

Maury:

Mm-hmm.

Craig:

Learned some stuff. Learned a lot of stuff. I gotta tell you, I mean, Nicole and I walked away from that interview with a lot of very simple, practical things, and that is my wrapper upper, I think. Like a lot of mastery. The answer is not very complicated, but it's in the action. And when I realized that, and I've seen it my whole life, but you know that my dad will walk in and give my mom a kiss and that he'll give her a kiss on the way out the door that they. Don't kind of go to bed angry. They, they talk. When things come up, they do the little things well and consistently and it's like we all know to do them, but we let those little things slip and you see a mastery in a marriage for 60 years and you realize, They make the little things look easy. They really do. And they make them important. The little things are important. So, so Nicole and I have started giving a kiss when we walk in and, and a kiss before we leave 100 percents because of this interview's. So great thing. You know what, that's an important thing and we want to do that.

Maury:

I love that. Yeah. No, it's how those little things, I mean, one of my favorite quotes in life is, you know, the way you do one thing is the way you do everything. And so those tiny little changes can make, can be such watershed of moments of no matter what, I choose affection, no matter what I choose. Love. Yeah. I, I, there were so many, I mean, respect. Your mom talking about how, you know, what she loves about your dad is he's always game. Even if he doesn't want to, even if she knows, like it's not his thing, he'll stay. Yeah, let's do it. You know? Which to me is there's just no fight. There's no fight. You know, Allie and I talked about what are the deal breakers and your dad's, like when she dies, like that's the deal breaker, but there's just no. All the things, they just aren't hung up on all these things that could be hung up. And they had, you know, you, you never wanna force something that shouldn't be, but they, and they genuinely had a kind of love from the get-go. That was the connective tissue that certainly helps make those decisions. There's a lot your dad said that I really related to anger, darkness you know, self-loathing, how he expressed himself and felt about his life. I don't think of myself as a tough guy like your dad, but there's more, there's a lot in that I related to, and so he has to make a decision when he walks in the door to put that down. Whatever that is. And in a way he talked about it sounded like some of it's still there. But he makes a decision when he walks in the door, to choose love, you know, these are the people who matter to me and so I will be this way for them. And I just think that's so powerful. And your, your mom is just, she's just awesome.

Craig:

Hang on, hang on. Wrap her up or violation, right. Coming in with, coming in with a second one because I have this one. Oh, you, Nicole and I the tit for tat. Oh yeah. The fact that my parents do not play tit for tat that they're not scorekeeping actually blew my mind. I spend so much of my time. Score keeping with Nicole. Well, I did the dishes. Are you going to take out the this? And I went shopping, are you going to do that? And it's all, some like, like they're scales and like they have to be balanced with perfect little cubes of equal. And then my parents are like, what? I was like, so aren't you like resentful when you have to go shopping and cook? And they're, they were looking at us like, what are you talking about? They literally did not understand. Yep. The game of tit for tat. Yep. They just do stuff and that, seriously, that blew my mind.

Maury:

And that's one of those things I feel like there's so many things in marriage and relationships that we're told to value and some of those make sense, but like the tit for tat one, right. Like for, for years I was like, well, yeah. Yeah, that's how you should, like a marriage, a relationship looks like this. Like, and it matters that I fight for this and I make sure, you know, and that it always bites me in the ass, by the way, the minute I start doing that,

Craig:

Exactly.

Maury:

She's gonna say, well yeah, what about this one? And I go, exactly. That kind of stuff to actually give that stuff up? And again, like, an abusive marriage is an abusive marriage. I don't think everyone should find some magic just because you're in a bad situation, you're in a bad situation.

Craig:

Oh yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure.

Maury:

But that's a game changer.

Craig:

I mean they're definitely, the cool thing I've had, and I said it is a front row seat. To two people that have just always really liked each other. They've always really rooted for each other. Yep. They didn't expect each other to be perfect. They knew each other's weaknesses from the get go. And still there's just this like adoration and Yeah. And like as my mom said, my mom said it like a deep love, you know, just these are two people that deeply love each other and they're okay with the other person not being perfect. And they dig the journey together and they always have. And it's inspiring and it, it's cool to know it's out there. I feel like it rubbed off on me and Nicole. Definitely. Yeah. And hopefully everybody out there, you'll get a little bit of Siggie and Dodo rubbing off on you in your life and in your relationships. But Maury, thanks for doing this one with me. This was an awesome, awesome trip. Awesome. And, and what a gift. Uh, all the way around for my family.

Maury:

Yep. Great to see them too.

Craig:

So, we'll see you next time on Everyday

Maury:

Masters.

People on this episode

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Craig Diamond

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Maury Sterling

Host